Acro nightmare

[Bogg]

Such a bummer lmk when your ready and I can hook you up with my ultra tank raised
Frags What test kits are you using and what are you measuring salinity with? Have you actually seen the aefws?

[Funkateer_1]

Have you shaken the acros in RO/DI and actually seen flatworms popping off? If the tissue death is this aggressive you should see hundreds of little white ovals.

Do you check your phosphates? If you shut down your biopellets 'cold turkey' without using another source of carbon to compensate, you could have accidentally killed off a huge population of bacterioplankton. This would lead to major organic pollution and a spike in organics. SPS do not like even the slightest amount of PO4 in the system. Small amounts lead to brown-outs.... large amounts lead to bleaching.

Also just out of curiosity, do you always use scripps water? have you done a water change recently....?

[naso tang]

my test kits are not great (API), and I have not checked phosphate in along time. I did start GFO when I stopped biopellets, and actually started growing some macroalgae as a fuge in my sump to compensate. It's just rock and chaeto, not mature yet, but I am getting macro growth. I don't have a refractometer for salinity check, but I do have ATO and check sg periodically with hydrometer. I had tested nitrates after I stopped the pellets, and didn't see any. Most of the corals had ok color up until the STN started on two large colonies that were somewhat shaded by a powerhead. I never did see flatworms, although never rinsed in RO/DI water. Just sort of assumed with the spread and the tissue loss (brown tissue at base) that I might be getting eaten. Have done several revive treatments o the acros, and a lugols treatment, but have not seen the bitemarks or a worm. Could be what you suggest, organics increase upon shutting down biopellets, but my skimmer actually slowed down when I stopped the pellets, and only acros are affected (birdsnest, cyphastrea, acans, pocci, stylos all looking ok). But since I don't test for phosphate, it is possible those levels increased and the acro bleaching is in response to this. And since I pulled the acros out, my filter sock and skimmer has looked disgusting but I figured that was from some of the colonies undergoing RTN and me rearranging rock that hasn't been done in about 6 months. I will do some more testing tommorrow, but hard to nail this down given the frequency of my water changes.
I routinely use scripps. I do recall though that I mixed in some kent salt in a water change when I was worried that biopellets were stripping trace elements that I wasn't replacing. It is also possible that some of this incident is the result of mixing salt sources that one time, I've heard nightmares about that. But I routinely do water changes (weekly like clockwork), and I've done this more frequently since setting up the quarantine since I'm paranoid.

Ryan, thanks for the offer on frags, I know you are the place to go when I feel confident enough to start building again. Might take this opportunity after christmas to change up my system, we'll see if I can get recovery of the colonies and frags I've got left...

[Bogg]

Assuming that your salinity and kh remained stable you probably just did too many changes way too fast.

[naso tang]

agreed, somewhat of an overreaction to a misdiagnosis of pest. Definitely something funky going on in the display as funkateer mentions though. I've needed keflex for tank wounds twice in the last 6 weeks. The green milli that RTN'd has a small patch at the base that survived, so I'll see if I can grow that out. 10 million frags from all the manipulations...

[naso tang]

phosphates in display are undetectable funkateer. still no nitrates detectable either. could have been a spike in PO4 though after the biopellets, corrected by water changes and intro of refugium. I've started putting cut frags back in the display since now my cali tort is losing tissue in the quarantine and the few pieces of sps in the display seem fine. Salinity in the quarantine is wacked after going 10g to 20g. I've never considered the difference between scripps SG and my display specific gravity (~1.025) since the water change percentage is much smaller...guess I run my display at higher sg than scripps? Anything that survives all this stress of quarantine will certainly be hardy livestock...

[wrestle1952]

am really sorry to hear about your tank. I am completely frustrated attempting to keep SPS. I had a THRIVING 50 gallon breeder SPS tank. It was lit by 2 X 250 watt hqi 20k filtered by an Eshopps 100-h skimmer with an modded aqua clear 50 that surface skimmed. I used Chemi-pure elite. I added Aqua C complete on a daily basis. I NEVER TESTED MY WATER and did twice a year water changes. People were amazed at the simplicity of my tank and the diversity of sps (montis, acros, stylos, pocis). My live rock was covered with SPS and I had the "problem" of coral warfare where the overgrowth of corals began killing each other. A shop owner in the Bay Area held all my large colonies until I set my new tank up. I kept my old live rock (kept in moist newprint), bought a 100 gallon tank with dual overflows, got an Elos sump, filter socks, Vertex 180 skimmer and a Fluval canister with Chemi-pure Elite. I then sent for my colonies and they all died. I began testing my water on a regular basis Calcium - 450, Mag 1300-1400, Alk at 8-9. Started buying frags, they all die. I then researched bio-pellets and took the plunge. I bought a Phosban 150 reactor, added 200ml of NPX biopellets, a 350 gallon per hour pump and dosed MB7. Results? Massive outbreak of cyano, STN on my new sps. I started massive weekly water changes using Scripps (35 gallons a week), called Julian Sprung at Two Little Fishies
who told me to bring my levels to those of natural seawater so I did. Things continued to STN so I finally stopped the pellets. After a week the cyano is diminishing and STN has slowed. I can't believe the advice I get at times. I've been told metal halide was really poisoning my corals and T5 would save the day. Others told me go LED and it would save the day. We have the 9th hardest water in the country here. I have a reverse osmosis filter for top-off but that doesn't solve the hardness issue. I think that may have a major impact on my SPS problems I am having. I am about to give up trying to keep my beloved SPS and go with easy LPS. My heart won't be into it as much but on the bightside that stuff can be kept with normal 40 watt flourescent bulbs. I don't understand why people spend so much money on lighting when normal wattage flourscent will do just fine.

[naso tang]

I can see why you're frustrated, that is alot of work for limited return. Many of us have OCD when it comes to this hobby, me for sure. I've had every pest I've heard of (except I think for AEFW). Red bugs, monti eating nudis (the worst!!!), regular flatworms, bryopsis, asterinas, zoa eating nudis. Can't even remember all of em. But for me, nothing beats watching my corals feed and grow. I didn't even plan to start SPS, just sort of happened. I am pretty low tech, but have been able to grow some nice colonies without much expense. Some of my biggest colonies came from freebies or $25 frags. Still don't even know a good strategy for feeding SPS (night? Day? phyto? no phyto? with flow? without? fish crap? zoo/oyster/coral frenzy? rotifers? marine snow?) but you can see how many different opinions there are out there, and each system has different requirements, parameters, and dynamics. SPS love light (whether T5, or halide, or CF, fluorescent or LED), high flow, and typically don't like dirty water. Need lots of Ca++ and good stable alk and salinity. As this thread points out, they don't typically respond well to change. Interactions among corals seem somewhat unpredictable. sometimes they can grow in close proximity, other times they are competitive. I guess that's why it's fun, I am a scientist at heart and a reefer on a budget, but nothing's going to stop this encrusting monti from growing into that patch of tricolor growing out of the rock, and maybe there are some palys in the middle and then chaos theory ensues...

[wrestle1952]

Yeah I'm finding reefing here to be quite different than the NorCal area I come from. I belonged to Reef Groups both in the San Francisco Area and Modesto (Central Cali). We always compared notes when it came to growth and color and SIMPLICITY. We used Ebay bulbs or intentionally tried to find the least expensive way to keep SPS with success. San Diego reefers STRESS brands (ATI, Geismann, Cree, Octopus, blah, blah, blah) rather than what the equipment piece is whether lights, skimmers, pumps, etc. The advice I get from shops and forums is change to this brand etc. and my problems would be solved. I am going through my second phase of using desgner brands only to get the same miserable results and losing SPS despite what people say. I have yet to see a SPS dominated tank here that can compare to the NorCal tanks in my previous clubs. I am now ready to go back to sumpless set up to see if I can keep the SPS I used to have. I am probably pissing someone off that is reading this or someone ready to say their designer stuff is better than the other desogner brand. There is a guy in Carlsbad that I buy my lone surviving SPS colonies (Monti confusa, two blue acros) that has a VERY simple system. Two hundred gallon system in his garage with some VERY old Coralife 10K 150 watt bulbs in addition to a bunch of VERY old powercompact actinic bulbs. He sells only on Craigslist and not here. His SPS grows out of the top of his tanks. He adds two part daily and changes water occasionally. Rarely tests and can grow colonies from twigs in a matter of months. Like I said I am going back to simple as possible.

[naso tang]

I hear you. I've had success with sunpod and nano, I even had a 30G natural reef in the 90s for like 10 years on PCs that I barely even took care of. Had a magnum cannister, a trickle filter and a skilter power filter. Never had a crash in that one, it was a natural ecosystem with plants, worms, etc. PCs were a big innovation back then. My lps and softies thrived, but I couldn't keep a birdsnest alive in that system. And I remember going after a 2 foot bristleworm with needlenose pliers, thing freaked me out so bad. I could have trapped that thing in a PVC tube it was so fat.

Now, I love having a sump, I think a big skimmer is important, and I do think my ATI blue plus bulbs and ATI sunpower fixture are pretty cool. For T5s, I would never use another actinic bulb other than blue plus. When I did halides, I loved the phoenix 14K. I'm sure if I stuck with halides, I'd be going into radium 20Ks at some point if I could afford my electric bill. But the more control over your system you have the better, and that includes temp/organics/salinity etc. It can be low tech, as long as parameters are in control and are consistent. Sorry mods my tank crash thread goes philosophical...

[wrestle1952]

LOL, it's okay. I just keep searching for reasons I can't keep SPS I've purchased here except for that guy in Carlsbad with the primitive system and lights. Believe me I've tried frags from EVERYONE in San Diego with no success. I currently use Phoenix 14K hqi bulbs since that was the consensus of shops here if I stick with halides. I currently have 500 watts of light using MH. If I used an 8 bulb 54 watt T5 system it is 432 watts not much difference. I really have no heat issues. Constant 79 degrees without a controller. During the summer my airconditioner vent is right next to the cooling fan intake. A friend of mine had a 150 gallon lit with LED's. He didn't have SPS but his electrical bill went up during the winter. Instead of the lights warming the tank (yes T5's can warm a tank) his heater was on all of the time. That is 600 watts no one takes into account when the T5 vs. MH vs. LED debate, argument, whatever you want to call it occurs.

[jason142]

Believe me I've tried frags from EVERYONE in San Diego with no success.

I don't recall you ever getting any frags from me. Lots of reefers with huge sps colony's so its kinda hard to believe that you have tried from everyone. I understand your frustration with it though. I've just come to the realization that with sps or reef keeping in general ish happens and there isn't always a logical reason why. If reef keeping was that easy then everyone would be doing it. Good luck with the rest of your colony's. Oh, have you ever dosed stontium by chance?

[wrestle1952]

When I say everyone I mean LFS. I have tried mutliple private sales with the same results. It's hard to hit up everyone on here that have frags. I am getting to the point if I can't find things in the Bay Area I will use strictly Ora frags. They are much pricier but it is the lone frag, a red planet outside of the guy in Carlsbad that is surviving in my tank. Jason perhaps I will purchase from you. I have tried others but with my survival rate I am getting nickled and dimed to death.

[wrestle1952]

I have never dosed anything but Aqua C two part since it contains magnesium and the price is several dollars lower than B-Ionic which doesn't contain magnesium. I previously used R-E-E-F complete for the same reason but they went out of business. I stopped by Custom Aquatic and visited their clearance section and got the last gallon bottle of R-E-E-F alkalinity and a gallon of R-E-E-F calcium for 8 dollars!! That will last me for quite some time. I also purchased my first bottle of Reef Solutions which will hopefully aid with my SPS. I don't want to get into dosing too many things but will continue water changes with Scripps since it's free.

[Bogg]

HEY WRESTLE if your ever around Ramona I'd like you to come by check out my tank and have a reef chat then send you home with some tank raised sps it's probable the frags your getting are fresh cut wild caughts which can be fussy at first better to go with tank raised some of my sps I've had for 8 years hope to hear from you soon let's get you growing some nice colored sticks again.