Acro nightmare

[naso tang]

Wow, I have not had a tank crash really ever, but I ran into trouble recently with my acros. One of my large colonies started STNing. Couldn't really tell if it was AEFW or something else that caused it, but it started to spread to other acros. I had gone off of biopellets in the last few weeks, and had picked up several new frags, but I always dip and/or use interceptor baths, so wasn't really sure what was going on. Parameters seemed normal wrt alk, Ca+, Ph, nitrates, and the other sps and few lps I have in the display seem fine...

Decided to get a quarantine tank setup, and assume it was AEFW since I could see some brown spots (eggs?) at the bases where stuff had STN'd. Nothing went RTN, at least not initially. I fragged quite a bit, and I dipped everybody in Revive and transferred to the 10g quarantine but couldn't really visibly nail down any flatworms (my eyesight is not so great and my magnifier is only so good). Then, some of my healthiest looking colonies went RTN probably in shock from the move from the display to the little 10g system. Temp/salinity/alk swing? Change in flow? Response to lighting change? allelopathy (does that happen in sps only systems?)

I don't know what else this could be other than AEFW. when I blow the corals with a baster in the revive, tissue comes off, and maybe some worms but I can't really verify. Hard to tell worms from browned out tissue. When I thought I finally verified some worms, that colony turned out to be RTNing and I lost the whole thing in a matter of a few hrs.

So all my acros are hanging in this quarantine. To get rid of AEFW, I read they should stay there 5-6 weeks with dipping every 4-5 days and manual removal of eggs. I'm not sure they will make it, and I'm not sure how to maintain this little system. It's got good filtration, good lights, some good flow, but I'm not sure if I need to be dosing, or how I should feed etc in such a small volume system. I can't really fit all my acros in there either, and now that I've had some STNs, I'm afraid I'll lose all of them. And maybe I didn't even have flatworms...

Bummed. Any suggestions on how to maintain a quarantine with SPS are welcome. I'm planning to change water frequently, but at this point, I don't know how to manage evap in this tiny system and am thinking of kicking up to a 20g. Can't even fit rock in this tank as it currently is, so all bio filtration is coming from filter pads/media in the two HOB filters I'm using.

[rodbuster229]

wow that sucks bro

[Toombs]

That really sucks =( , one thing I had recently was RTN'ing bc of a phosban reactor =/ Mostly what I do is frag what I can, dip, then in the qt tank I run a little high mag, alk, calc and then run a little cooler water, around 75 - 76. Most of the things survived and are not growing again but sps is a very touchy coral so it all come's down to luck most of the time, at least with me it was like that. Maybe my input can save some of your stuff but maybe someone else will chime in as well.

Good luck.

[naso tang]

Details about the main display (not so relevant to this problem I don't think).
SG=1.025
Ca+=~420ppm
Mg+ = 1350
Ph = 8.3
alk = 9 dkH
75G with sump, CS220 skimmer, chiller, 79 degrees. ATI 6 bulb T5 fixture, 2 koralia 1050s and an MP10.

I have not tested the quarantine system, but have already changed 50% water with scripps and the quarantine was set up with water from the display tank only a few days ago. It did start with some rock in it, and had a mature biofilter on it's fluval HOB filter. I also dosed some MB7, not sure if this will really cycle or not if I'm changing water routinely.

Quarantine is 10g with a fluval and aqueon HOB filters on it. It's got a heater, and a 6 bulb T5 nova extreme pro with 4 actinics and 2 whites, and a koralia 2 for additional flow. Only other creatures in quarantine is 1 hermit crab to pick up detritus.

[Nick_Kun]

Some good info here, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1730682

[naso tang]

Thanks guys. Nick, I have checked out some of the AEFW threads. I just can't see the worms, even when I treat "infected" colonies with revive or lugols in a white bowl. My colonies had that browned out look on the lower half which is what made me think I had these, but they didn't really have circular, brown eggs that I could confirm with my magnifying loop, and I couldn't say I really saw bitemarks. On another note, I went to urgent care a few weeks ago when I banged up my hand in the display during maintenance, and went into some pretty severe cellulitus. That is supposed to be a hallmark of vibrio infection, but who knows what infected me that time...I got some antibiotics over that injury but don't know if it has any relation to what's actually nailing my acros.

[Nick_Kun]

I wonder if there's any funky bacteria that is stressing your acros? When you had your biopellets running, where you also dosing any beneficial bacteria(ie microbacter) or dosing any carbon source(vodka, sugar, vinegar)? Something similar happened on my 120 a few years ago when I overdosed on carbon source and stimulated some nasty bacteria that pissed off my sps. Water changes was the only thing that helped me bring my acros back to health.

[naso tang]

it is possible. I was periodically dosing MB7. Wasn't dosing anything else for carbon, but was using plenty of additives (K+, Phol's, Iron, aminos and trace). Had some cyano when I quit the biopellets. Treated chemiclean, did a big water change afterward, and since that time, have been doing bigger water changes than I had previously thinking maybe I had monomers in the water column (usually 5-10 gallons/week instead of 5). But I stopped the biopellets because some sps didn't respond well to it (birdsnest in particular) and then when I stopped, some improved and some got worse. And in this process, again, I got a puncture wound 2 days ago ripping acros of their rocks, and automatic infection/cellulitus AGAIN! You'd think I'd learn to wear gloves after the last urgent care visit...

I had a beautiful bright green milli that loved the pellets, but crashed miserably today. Same with a nice surf and turf. Neither one of those seemed obviously affected by AEFW/STN, but I quanrantined em anyway, and they both RTN'd in the quarantine switch. I've had pretty good luck with sps in general over the past few years, so I'm probably due for this catastrophe in the grand scheme of reefing...

[AJ858]

Hows your temp? If you dip sps that have aefw in revive and turkey baster it, you should be able to see some of the flatworms remaining once you remove the coral.

[goody]

Had you ever used this QT for medicating fish? I leaning towards something in the QT. It doesn't sound like AEFW because you would see these come off, especially if it is too the point of causing your sps to stn. Some have claimed that biopellets have caused tank crashes. I've been using them for over a year now, and actually started a poll on another site. Most people love them.

[naso tang]

Hows your temp? If you dip sps that have aefw in revive and turkey baster it, you should be able to see some of the flatworms remaining once you remove the coral.

I know I should be able to see these if I have them. I just haven't definitively seen one. Even got a chromis to see if I could blow them off in the display to be munched by my six line or the chromis. Temp fluctuation may have been a problem that resulted in the RTN of a few of the colonies. I had the quarantine fluctuate a bit when it started up, and all the dipping and rinsing has probably resulted in the dip/rinse buckets being colder than the display or the quarantine. But quarantine is stable now, and new water going in (and dips) are performed with system water (with water changes being heated up prior to change). And the display is temp controlled by heater and chiller.

[naso tang]

Had you ever used this QT for medicating fish? I leaning towards something in the QT. It doesn't sound like AEFW because you would see these come off, especially if it is too the point of causing your sps to stn. Some have claimed that biopellets have caused tank crashes. I've been using them for over a year now, and actually started a poll on another site. Most people love them.

This QT is new to me, I'm unaware of meds in it, looks pretty clean, came from Drew Innis who got it from Weksos. It could also be flow that's too direct, but so far for RTN it looks only like 1-2 colonies out of like 5 biggies and tons of frags that are other than having some tissue loss from STN that happened in the display are hanging in there in the quarantine. I have just never used one, so am unsure of how to create stability in such a small system. Also, a 6 bulb nova extreme pro is alot of light for such a little tank (10g), but the comparison of this current fixture to my 6 bulb ATI seems pretty equivalent light wise and I tried to keep the cycle close to reduce stress. I'm thinking of moving up to a 20g particularly since the livestock is so packed in here, and I can get better indirect flow in 20 instead of the 10g.

For me, my problems got worse for me when I dropped biopellets I think. I never had high nitrates as a problem, I only tried these to get better color and for many corals, I did get better color over the course of ~9 months. It just required that I used more additives than I did before and for some strange reason I couldn't keep birdsnest healthy. And I think I was not feeding enough on the biopellets, maybe the coral was stressed from starving, and then just didn't like the change when I went off the carbon dosing. I traded some coral/acros to someone on the board recently, and I think the colonies I transferred are doing ok in his system. I had to reach out to him when I thought I had AEFW going on since we traded recently...now I'm thinking this is not really AEFW since I haven't confirmed a sighting and the puzzle looks more like STN of bacterial or other source. Do I even need to quanrantine if this is the case??? my display seems so empty now, with 50% of the livestock moved to this little 10g...

[Drew_Inna_SD]

John, I bought the QT tank new from PK. Never put anything in it other than salt water mixed from PK and RODI top off. No meds, no dosing, nada. The light is the only thing that came from WEKSOS.

Hope everything works out!

I am a total novice, but after you dip are you rinsing the corals with RODI or salt water? that might help...

[naso tang]

thx for the clarification Drew. Yep, all dips and rinses are in scripps/tank water...when the house is 72, and the tank is 79/80, maybe these 15 minute dips with rinsing are what's killing these guys. and not sufficient acclimation to the quarantine...who knows, just lost another one I transferred yesterday. Milli down, surf and turf down, ORA ChIP (or belina?) down. Hanging in there is cali tort, joe the coral, rainbow milli, bunch of tri color and marshall island frags, blue tipped table something or other, yellow tort. red planet, miami orchid, garf bonsai...

[naso tang]

Ok, feeling a bit better since I upgraded from a 10g to 20g. Here's the "survivors"...



and here's my throw together acro quarantine tank that I guess now constitutes tank #3 for me...you may notice the antique table being used as a stand for the 20g...one more dip today just in case this really is a pest that revive can kill, but I bailed on scrubbing "eggs" since I probably did more damage than good when I dipped last time...

Happy thanksgiving everybody, despite my acro crash I can be thankful I've still got some sweet livestock in the other two tanks as well as lots of other good stuff to be thankful for including SDReefs peeps...