Generation 3 LED Fixtures!!!

[Acefspds]

Can i still like both Acefspds and Larrym even though you guys hate each other, or do i have to take sides like a child when his parents get divorced and has to choose which one to live with....

I had nothing against Larry. He is the one who started in on the thread. His false claims and allegations lead me to keep posting. I have a group buy going on over here. Not trying to make any money on anyone or anything. I am just trying to bring SDR an upgraded light. I have no worries over here.

It seems that part of the problem is the concept of a "group buy". Then there are the remaining technical issues like optics, spectrum, etc. to be hashed out.

From Wikipedia: Tuángòu (pronounced "twangoo"), which loosely translates as team buying or group buying (also known as store mobbing), is a recently developed shopping strategy originating in the People's Republic of China. Several people - sometimes friends, but possibly strangers connected over the internet - agree to approach a vendor of a specific product in order to haggle with the proprietor as a group in order to get discounts. The entire group agrees to purchase the same item. The shoppers benefit by paying less, and the business benefits by selling multiple items at once.

Which are which here? Group buys, or retail sales?

This one is a group buy. I am not getting these wholesale like LarryM gets his lights. I am not marking anything up. I was told how many must be ordered at what price and I posted it. From what I understand LarryM buys his lights Factory direct, imports them under his business license and sells them under his resale license making a profit. That to me sounds like retail sales not a group buy.







Also Larry care to comment on any of these?

What does it matter if it is broke... it needs to be repaired.

I would rather have someone who does this for a living working in a real service center thats trained to work on the lights do repairs then some guy in his garage that might see things right. Personally I wouldnt trust just any joe to work on a light thats gonna have so much use. I would rather have someone do it that actually knows what they are doing.

yes the manufacturer has authorized me

How so? What training did a conpany in China give you on the lights? Did you have a hands on training class or something? What experience do you have working on the lights? How long have you been doing it? Do you have all the needed supplies on hand for all repairs? Fans? extra bulbs? Circuit boards? Interested to know how you was "authorized"...

And if that happens... do you have a light you would be able to loan while the other is out for repair?

Yes a loner light will be given. Do you offer this? Sorry I forgot to add that to the buy. Thanks for the reminder.

[LarryM]

I guess I will make a last comment to this.

That's nice and all but that's wholesale. I'm not getting these wholesale. Thought I said that plus who is to say that's even the same light?

That link is what anyone can go on-line and buy that light for... Looks the same... has the same circuit protection... but it is a cookie cutter light now... there are a few manufacturers making them.

You made assumptions on pricing and shipping on ones I purchased... You have no facts to back that up. It has already been established that there are cheaper light out there that may or may not meet the requirements of a captive Reef. They did not meet mine.. I have a couple use over my QT system that I would not use on my display.
You did not even consider that the ones I ordered have custom circuits that improve controllability and lighting and are not available on open market. The spectrum and mix are not a standard and each unit is made to order to those speks... not just something available. This increased costs... I have made that comment in my posts.

So I will acknowledge that in your opinion you think that you have a better product to provide.

[LarryM]

Can i still like both Acefspds and Larrym even though you guys hate each other, or do i have to take sides like a child when his parents get divorced and has to choose which one to live with....

I can tell you I dont Hate him... we have a difference. I have purchased a few time from him and would like to in the future if he has something I desire. My main issue was and is to support the fixture that were purchased using my name. The original post.. before edits was putting those fixtures down. They stand on their own for performance and are in my opinion still (with ecxeption to High end expensive systems) the better product.

The discussion probably went way out of bounds for which I apologize. I was asked not to take it further and i obliged until help was (admittedly) solicited to open it back up.

[Acefspds]

I guess I will make a last comment to this.



That link is what anyone can go on-line and buy that light for... Looks the same... has the same circuit protection... but it is a cookie cutter light now... there are a few manufacturers making them.

You made assumptions on pricing and shipping on ones I purchased... You have no facts to back that up. It has already been established that there are cheaper light out there that may or may not meet the requirements of a captive Reef. They did not meet mine.. I have a couple use over my QT system that I would not use on my display.
You did not even consider that the ones I ordered have custom circuits that improve controllability and lighting and are not available on open market. The spectrum and mix are not a standard and each unit is made to order to those speks... not just something available. This increased costs... I have made that comment in my posts.

So I will acknowledge that in your opinion you think that you have a better product to provide.

You never gave any information stating that you get "custom circuits". Now your saying that things up the cost but you was bashing the price of my GB light saying its a downgrade at a higher cost when it has more options. Like you just said more options is more money. You can see the options in my fixture. What are the ones in yours that make it cost more?

Also you didnt hit on anything I posted in 2 posts. This also isnt the one last comment after you said your finished here. I want atleast one more reply from you Larry.

I think everyone on here should know since some have bought a fixture from you.... Knowing the fire hazzard from rewireing lights and what not. It might be just me but I would rather have a service center work on something thats gonna have so much use then you working on it in your garage. Using a light that much and having you messing around on the inside of a light fixture at your house might be a bit too much of a fire hazzard to me. If you was to "fix" someones light and something you did caused a fire, would you compensate the person for damages? I know if you buy a light at a store and this happens they wont cover it but the store also didnt have their hands inside the fixture rewireing or whatever. Might be a small chance but its still a chance.

What does it matter if it is broke... it needs to be repaired.

I would rather have someone who does this for a living working in a real service center thats trained to work on the lights do repairs then some guy in his garage that might see things right. Personally I wouldnt trust just any joe to work on a light thats gonna have so much use. I would rather have someone do it that actually knows what they are doing.

yes the manufacturer has authorized me

How so? What training did a conpany in China give you on the lights? Did you have a hands on training class or something? What experience do you have working on the lights? How long have you been doing it? Do you have all the needed supplies on hand for all repairs? Fans? extra bulbs? Circuit boards? Interested to know how you was "authorized"...

And if that happens... do you have a light you would be able to loan while the other is out for repair?

Yes a loner light will be given. Do you offer this? Sorry I forgot to add that to the buy. Thanks for the reminder.

I can tell you I dont Hate him... we have a difference. I have purchased a few time from him and would like to in the future if he has something I desire. My main issue was and is to support the fixture that were purchased using my name. The original post.. before edits was putting those fixtures down. They stand on their own for performance and are in my opinion still (with ecxeption to High end expensive systems) the better product.

The discussion probably went way out of bounds for which I apologize. I was asked not to take it further and i obliged until help was (admittedly) solicited to open it back up.

I never put down any fixture. The only edit was to add "In my opinion" which wasnt good enough for you. Like I said before I can have any opinion I want. You dodge almost every question people ask or atleast you have dodged alot of questions I have asked like the ones listed above that I think everyone should know since you are the "authorized" person for repairs. I think we should know what type of training you have on these lights and electronics in general. Not just what you do for a hobby but actual on site training experience working on these lights. This is important information everyone should know expecially the people who have bought off of your retail sales "group buy" thread.

You also never answered if your running a business selling/working on these lights. Are you running a business? If so like I said before sponsorship should be paid for the amount of business you do. I would find it hard to believe your not running a business after hearing things like "getting them in under my license", "Sales tax is charged", etc. Everyone knows if you personally charge tax and run them in through your business license that your running a business but trying to stay under the radar saying its a group buy. Been seeing alot of this "group buy" stuff going on that probabley really isnt a group buy.

[drainbamage]

Ace...im taking a popcorn approach to this thread, but honestly, you saying larry is "some guy in a garage who doesn't know what they're doing" is a pretty silly statement, anyone whose met Larry or even seen the technicals he's posted knows the guy is pretty damn intelligent and knows what he's doing- be it with custom electronics or glass repairs or heck, if he said he was taking up paragliding id expect him to become a near expert on all aspects of that including maitenance of his craft.

I get that you heard things and like to use a lot of hype to drive your sales, and that's fine, but when you switch from hyping your product to making insulting insinuations, its just not right, and reeks of immaturity or insecurity.

I know you have beef with me for some reason I've yet to understand, but please take what I just said as constructive criticism and think about heeding the advice - if you can't keep the debate civil and within the realm of realistic evaluations, don't go to that part of the debate.

I doubt you'll listen, and you'll probably dislike me some more for saying it, but I thought it worth a try.


And shemp, if sdreefs ever gives you the vibe that you need to hate someone or take sides on something....go find a different hobby or forum, reefing surely ain't about hating anyone (its all about hating nitrates and phosphates and flatworms and nudis that eat nice stuff and....no room left for hating fellow hobbyists. =) )

[LarryM]

Also Larry care to comment on any of these?

I would rather have someone who does this for a living working in a real service center thats trained to work on the lights do repairs then some guy in his garage that might see things right. Personally I wouldnt trust just any joe to work on a light thats gonna have so much use. I would rather have someone do it that actually knows what they are doing.

How so? What training did a conpany in China give you on the lights? Did you have a hands on training class or something? What experience do you have working on the lights? How long have you been doing it? Do you have all the needed supplies on hand for all repairs? Fans? extra bulbs? Circuit boards? Interested to know how you was "authorized"...

Yes a loner light will be given. Do you offer this? Sorry I forgot to add that to the buy. Thanks for the reminder.

Since you asked I will comment... then I am backing out of this thread.

Your trust issue is due to a lack of understanding of the capabilities involved. That is your issue. Have you seen the repair location that you lights will be going to? Just saying the location may not be any different.

I dont see how you have reason to question my background. I have over 20 years experience hands on maintaining Aircraft. All the way from nuts and bolts, component repair, quality control and supervision. That is Airframe, proulsion, electro-mechanical and instrumentation.
If you look at a few of my DIYs I would say I am capable of changing and installing components in a light assembly. Did you miss the comment that all the components in the newer LED fixtures are pretty much plug and play.

Authorization was given (in writing) by the manufacturer for warranty purposes. I have been given their troubleshooting procedures and instructions on how to handle issues. While technically the user can probably do the repairs the manufacturer want me to verify issues for quality control. I report any repair I have to perform to them. Additionally they have supplied me with spare parts for repairs. Any repair due to manufacture defect or workmanship, that has to be sent back to them will be shipped for free. And if that is the case, yes there will be a loaner provided(That is why I brought this up).

[Acefspds]

Ace...im taking a popcorn approach to this thread, but honestly, you saying larry is "some guy in a garage who doesn't know what they're doing" is a pretty silly statement, anyone whose met Larry or even seen the technicals he's posted knows the guy is pretty damn intelligent and knows what he's doing- be it with custom electronics or glass repairs or heck, if he said he was taking up paragliding id expect him to become a near expert on all aspects of that including maitenance of his craft.

I get that you heard things and like to use a lot of hype to drive your sales, and that's fine, but when you switch from hyping your product to making insulting insinuations, its just not right, and reeks of immaturity or insecurity.

I know you have beef with me for some reason I've yet to understand, but please take what I just said as constructive criticism and think about heeding the advice - if you can't keep the debate civil and within the realm of realistic evaluations, don't go to that part of the debate.

I doubt you'll listen, and you'll probably dislike me some more for saying it, but I thought it worth a try.


And shemp, if sdreefs ever gives you the vibe that you need to hate someone or take sides on something....go find a different hobby or forum, reefing surely ain't about hating anyone (its all about hating nitrates and phosphates and flatworms and nudis that eat nice stuff and....no room left for hating fellow hobbyists. =) )

Only thing I have against you is you like to fight with me every time I have a post or something about anything. You like to chime in with smart ass comments alot that really arent needed like you did earlier in this post.

I for one can't wait for the gen-10 LED's, I've heard they're going to have pretty sweet features.

Really why is this needed? Are you trying to throw some gas on the flames or are you being a bit immature? Guess your one of those do as I say not as I do types.

Larry might have some electronic knowledge but thats not what I am trying to point out. I am trying to point out that he probabley has had no training to work on these lights. My fixture is backed by an actual service center with employees who work on them for a living. Would you rather send a light to a service center with people who do it for a living and have been trained to work on the light your sending them or send it to seom guy working on stuff in his garage?

I never insulted anyone. If saying I dont think he knows what he is doing is insulting then you might need some thicker skin. Like I said I dont know how many times. having some hobbiest fixing something that gets so much use is a bit too much of a chance for me.

[Acefspds]

Since you asked I will comment... then I am backing out of this thread.

Your trust issue is due to a lack of understanding of the capabilities involved. That is your issue. Have you seen the repair location that you lights will be going to? Just saying the location may not be any different.

I dont see how you have reason to question my background. I have over 20 years experience hands on maintaining Aircraft. All the way from nuts and bolts, component repair, quality control and supervision. That is Airframe, proulsion, electro-mechanical and instrumentation.
If you look at a few of my DIYs I would say I am capable of changing and installing components in a light assembly. Did you miss the comment that all the components in the newer LED fixtures are pretty much plug and play.

Authorization was given (in writing) by the manufacturer for warranty purposes. I have been given their troubleshooting procedures and instructions on how to handle issues. While technically the user can probably do the repairs the manufacturer want me to verify issues for quality control. I report any repair I have to perform to them. Additionally they have supplied me with spare parts for repairs. Any repair due to manufacture defect or workmanship, that has to be sent back to them will be shipped for free. And if that is the case, yes there will be a loaner provided(That is why I brought this up).

So you have no training to repair these lights? Seams rather odd they would authorize you in wirting before seeing if you could actually fix them. Basically you told them you know what your doing and they believed you. To me thats not much of an authorized repair person. The service center for these lights isnt Tim in his garage.

Still doing the side step.... What about this one you keep dodging??....

You also never answered if your running a business selling/working on these lights. Are you running a business? If so like I said before sponsorship should be paid for the amount of business you do. I would find it hard to believe your not running a business after hearing things like "getting them in under my license", "Sales tax is charged", etc. Everyone knows if you personally charge tax and run them in through your business license that your running a business but trying to stay under the radar saying its a group buy. Been seeing alot of this "group buy" stuff going on that probabley really isnt a group buy.

I have restored cars for the last 10 years. Does that make me an electronice expert? I can rewire a car the way it should be. I have also done body work on cars for the last 10 years. Does that make me an expert? Things go wrong when building stuff as you know. You cant sit here and say you never had any problems doing any repairs in your 20 years. All it takes is 1 screw up and someone will suffer. Maybe just suffer from a broken light or maybe suffer from a fire. Airplanes and light fixtures are two totally different things. Just because you can make a DIY that makes you an expert on these lights? What are you gonna do if you screw up someone's light and it causes a fire? I have seen cars catch on fire because of faulty wireing, Have seen plains fall out of the sky do to mechanical failure. Your saying this isnt gonna happen or this dosnt have the change of happening after you (LarryM) finished "fixing" someone's light?

[ReefTank123]

Ace...im taking a popcorn approach to this thread, but honestly, you saying larry is "some guy in a garage who doesn't know what they're doing" is a pretty silly statement, anyone whose met Larry or even seen the technicals he's posted knows the guy is pretty damn intelligent and knows what he's doing- be it with custom electronics or glass repairs or heck, if he said he was taking up paragliding id expect him to become a near expert on all aspects of that including maitenance of his craft.

I get that you heard things and like to use a lot of hype to drive your sales, and that's fine, but when you switch from hyping your product to making insulting insinuations, its just not right, and reeks of immaturity or insecurity.

I know you have beef with me for some reason I've yet to understand, but please take what I just said as constructive criticism and think about heeding the advice - if you can't keep the debate civil and within the realm of realistic evaluations, don't go to that part of the debate.

I doubt you'll listen, and you'll probably dislike me some more for saying it, but I thought it worth a try.


And shemp, if sdreefs ever gives you the vibe that you need to hate someone or take sides on something....go find a different hobby or forum, reefing surely ain't about hating anyone (its all about hating nitrates and phosphates and flatworms and nudis that eat nice stuff and....no room left for hating fellow hobbyists. =) )

I don't read it that way at all. I don't think anyone here is saying anyone "doesn't know what they are doing". Most consumers have very clear expectations when it comes to Warranty Terms, Factory Authorizations, Representations, etc. Unfortunately, those expectations are often not met, or even seldom met by the manufacturer/seller.

It is helpful to shine a bright light (no pun intended) on all of the issues raised in this thread.

As to Larry’s light (appears to be his 119x1), he is taking responsibility for most everything soup-to-nuts. He designed it, he reps it, he compares it to competing products, he comments on competing products and on technical issues, he supports it, warranties it, repairs it, etc. It is basically HIS light so since he is on the hook, he should try to make a profit. This is where the group buy and SDR sponsorship gets confusing.

Ace is saying he takes his Toyota to the Toyota dealer (just an example) for parts and service, and not to Larry (just an example) even though Larry might be a gr8 Toyota mechanic.

Your point though that you have a beef with Ace is noted.

[Shemp]

And shemp, if sdreefs ever gives you the vibe that you need to hate someone or take sides on something....go find a different hobby or forum, reefing surely ain't about hating anyone (its all about hating nitrates and phosphates and flatworms and nudis that eat nice stuff and....no room left for hating fellow hobbyists. =) )

I know, i was trying to be funny...i was just trying to get them to stop the fighting...BTW...the frags are all doing great. all are open and the green digi is greening up.

[drainbamage]

I know, i was trying to be funny...i was just trying to get them to stop the fighting...BTW...the frags are all doing great. all are open and the green digi is greening up.

Lol...yea, i went for funny too with the Gen-10 thing, and it didn't work. Ace and his buddy (the guy who keeps asking people to do free write-ups for his for-profit business, lol) weren't pleased, sometimes humour just isn't appreciated.

Glad to hear the frags are doing good!

[NickSDC]

I don't think anyone here is saying anyone "doesn't know what they are doing".

Not true. I don't know what I'm doing... I don't know what I'm doing here still reading this thread. =) j/k

[ReefTank123]

Not true. I don't know what I'm doing... I don't know what I'm doing here still reading this thread. =) j/k

Nick,

Is your 119x1 the same as the LarryM light? Are you still doing your group buy? Still $200?

[NickSDC]

Pm pending brotha!

[ReefTank123]

We have received some requests to continue this thread. Seems it is going viral a bit and is being followed by other forums.

A review of the posts shows a seller of a 119x1-watt LED fixture taking umbrage with the claim that the 55x2-watt fixture was “better” than lights sold back in 2010 in other SDR Group Buys. A quick glance shows the critic’s 119x1 fixture, what appears to be the same 119x1 fixture, and an AquaIllumination (AI) 24x3-watt fixture from different sponsors in separate Group Buy threads that are currently active. So, 119x1, 119x1, 55x2, and 24x3.

… to be continued