FEELER: LED group buy

[willp2]

Not sure if anyone is interested and not trying to highjack the thread, but I recently found a source for SemiLED 3W LED's. They are the same one's used in Maxspect and other fixtures. From what I understand SemiLED uses CREE dies and are considered a close knockoff. Not the same, but pretty dam good for the price.

Still getting the details together but its looking like $3.75 each on the LED's in cool white and royal blue and about a buck each for optics. That's shipped.

[superman858mm]

link?

[willp2]

I'm actually going to try to import them directly from the manufacturer in China for my own use and maybe some more if anyone else is interested in trying these out. There is no online link that I know of, but here’s a PDF with the specs.

Here's a spec sheet on them.
SemiLED.pdf

[mextli]

those look promising. At half the cost, they sound like a good alternative.

[surfer85]

Hey just wanted to point out that the Cree XP-G LEDs are 30% more effiecient, produce a lot more light, and cost less than the Cree XR-E's. Now, the XP-G is currently only available in white, however the XP-E Royal Blue is arguably more efficient than the XR-E royal blue, and again just as cheap I think. You can use all the same buck pucks (or MW's) for driving them, or for the XP-Gs use a stronger drive for that much more intense lighting as they can run as high as 1.5A.
Just a note: I'm not trying to derail this thread, so I apologize if anyone takes it that way. I've just been looking into the DIY LED fixtures for a while now, and when I saw this group buy I thought I should at least share what I know and let you decide what you want to do. The one thing I will say is that LEDsupply.com is Awesome for Lenses! I don't know of another site that has lenses for so cheap. But the LEDs... not so much.

If you are wanting to stick with the XR-E LEDs I might suggest checking Dealextreme.com, they aren't always in stock but when they are you can find Q5 bin (best output) for about $5.36ea, no need for a group buy, star mounted, and free shipping!
>> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

OR, if you would like to know where a good site is to get the XP-G's (These would be my suggested LEDs)
>> http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut937

And here's the Royal Blue XP-E's
>> http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut902

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents, I hope it helps more than it hurts. If anybody has any questions they want to shoot me feel free to PM. I don't often run through the group buy section, so I probably wont see any questions posted here. But either way, Happy Reefing and don't forget to share your projects, DIYers Rock!

I'm looking for any information that helps. Thanks for the input.

[Triggler]

Hey Adam do you have any ETA on when you want to do this? I need a new light and I'm wondering if I should wait and do this LED build with you. Let me know dude!

[surfer85]

Not really sure when this would happen. After reading through the post I've done more research using the links above and am now considering using the Cree XP-Gs for the whites and the XP-Es for the royal blue. I'd like to get a dimmable buckpuck to have the option if I eventually do want it. I'm considering using Meanwell drivers but am still doing more reasearch. I like the idea of not needed a power source for the buckpucks. I really want to do as much research and idea swapping I can before I settle on the set up.

[surfer85]

From all the research I've done on LED builds, it's better to get 1000mA buck pucks for both blue and white LED's. 700mA is only necessary if you want to run some UV LED's on your Royal Blue line. But most people said that the 700mA isn't bright enough for the Royal Blues. Also the 3023-D-E-1000PmA Wired Buck Puck's will only run 6 3W LED's, not 12. You should look into the Meanwell ELN-60-48D drivers. They can run up to 14 3W LED's and they don't need an external power supply. Plus you can use your Reef Keeper Light w/ALC module to control your led's (i.e. simulated sunrise / sunset). These links have a lot of good info on LED's and builds.Comprehensive DIY LED Project List
Ultimate LED guide

I'm leaning heavily towards using the Meanwell ELN-60-48D drivers since they are dimmable and don't need a power supply...i like that a lot. I'm a little confused about the dimming feature. Is there a spot to plug somthing into the drivers to dim? Do I need to order something that will allow me to dim then? Can all the blues or whites be dimmed at the same time and not just from one driver or the other?

[mextli]

Hey surfer85, how big is your tank? How many LEDs were you planning on using? I think if you plan running 12 to 24 LEDs then the luxon buck pucks would be good. 24 and up led builds would work better with the
meanwells.

[surfer85]

Hey surfer85, how big is your tank? How many LEDs were you planning on using? I think if you plan running 12 to 24 LEDs then the luxon buck pucks would be good. 24 and up led builds would work better with the
meanwells.

I plan on doing 2 24-28 bulb fixtures. I'm considering doing 28 lights per fixture total since the meanwells can drive 14 leds per driver. I'd like to find a driver that can hit 1500mA since the XP-Gs are capable of producing at that level. I currently have a 150 gallon reef with sps on the upper portion and LPS at the bottome. I'm running 2 175w MHs and 1 250w MH. I'd eventually like to put optics on the LEDs to increase power.

[scubajay]

Alright I was a bit compelled to do a little comparative analysis of the LED that are being thrown around. So take from it what you will, but I will say that this only looks at the LEDs. Don’t forget to take into account that the more LEDs you use the more peripherals you’ll need as well (ie,. more power supplies and drivers, more heatsinks, possibly more optics,.. etc…)

Additionally I would highly encourage anybody who’s serious about this to take the time to read through these excellent threads from another reef form. They explain some of the simpler ways to cut costs, as well give some very direct instructions/ideas for how to build one. As always I hope this helps, and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=leds
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1784873

Oh! One more factor I wanted to make sure and point out. I assume we are looking at these LEDs because of 3 main factors: their energy efficiency, their extremely long life, and because they’re just cool!
With that said I highly recommend not trying to run your LEDs at higher current levels. Your LEDs life is directly proportional to the temperature at which it is running, as well it’s efficiency is directly proportional to the temperature at which it runs. In short, these LEDs run most efficiently and last longer, at lower currents (between 350-750mA) largely because this allows them to run cooler.

Basic Key:
LED type/Source/Cost
Current x Voltage = Wattage (This is your LED Power Consumption)
Lumens per Wattage = lm/Watt (LED light generation per Watt: Long term Value, this is arguably the Most Important factor to consider)
Lumens per Watt per Cost = Initial Value of LED based on the purchase price.


Ebay LEDs:

Whites: ($2.10 each)
750mA x 3.2v = 2.4 Watts (Produces 130 lm of light)
130(lm)/2.4(Watts) = 54.17 (lm/Watt) Long term Value
lm/Watt per $ = 25.8 Initial Value

Blue 12000k: (10 for $54 = $5.4 each)
700mA x 3.5 = 2.45 Watts (Produces 140 lm of light)
140(lm)/2.45(Watts) = 57.14 (lm/Watt) Long term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 0.0945 initial Value

Blue: (5 for 9.99 = $2 each)
700mA x 3.5v = 2.45 Watts (Produces 90 lm of light)
90(lm)/2.45(Watts) = 36.73 (lm/Watt) Long Term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 18.37 Initial Value


Cree XR-E LEDs :

XR-E Whites (Ledsupply.com >> $6.66 each ~ Assuming purchase of +50 LEDs)
700mA x 3.5V = 2.45 Watts (Produces ~ 175 lm of light)
175(lm)/2.45(Watts) = 71.43 (lm/Watt) Long term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 10.73 Initial Value

XR-E Whites (Dealextreme.com >> $5.36 each No group buy needed and free shipping)
700mA x 3.5V = 2.45 Watts (Produces ~ 175 lm of light)
175(lm)/2.45(Watts) = 71.43 (lm/Watt) Long term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 13.36 Initial Value

XR-E Royal Blues (Ledsupply.com >> $6.66 each ~ Assuming purchase of +50 LEDs)
700mA x 3.5V = 2.45 Watts (produces ~ 744 mW Flux >> Note: RB’s are measured in mW of flux)
744(mW flux)/2.45(Watts) = 303.57 (mW flux/Watt) Long term Value
mW(Flux)/Watt per $ = 45.58 Initial Value


Cree XP-G/P LEDs:

Whites: (From cutter.com.au >> $5.87 each ~ Assuming purchase of +50 LEDs)
700mA x 3.2v = 2.24 Watts (Produces ~252 lm of light)
252(lm)/2.24(Watts) = 112.5 (lm/Watt) Long term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 19.17 Initial Value

Royal Blues: (From cutter.com.au >> $5.89 each ~ Assuming purchase of +50 LEDs)
700mA x 3.4v = 2.38 Watts (Produces ~ 765 mW flux)
765(mW flux)/2.38(Watts) = 321.43 (mW flux/Watt) Long term Value
mW(Flux)/Watt per $ = 54.57 Initial Value


Semi LEDs:

White: ($3.75 each ?...)
700mA x 3.5v = 2.45(Watts)
140(lm)/(Watts) = 57.14 (lm/Watt) Long Term Value
Lm/Watt per $ = 15.24 Initial Value

Blue: ($3.75 each ?...)
???


If anybody sees something incorrect/wrong with what I have posted please let me know. I’m trying to put out as much accurate information as I can so as to help you all. This forum and the people here have helped me TONS and it’s not often I feel I have much I can contribute back so... I hope this makes sense and I hope it helps.

[willp2]

Great write up!

On the SemiLED LED's, again I don't want to take away from the original purpose of this group buy, so if there is any interest in the SemiLED's, lets move that discussion elsewhere.

As a general thought on real world results with SemiLED's check out this thread to read about Maxspect light fixtures which use SemiLED's.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1817995

[surfer85]

Okay after alot of help and inputs from scubajay I've came up with what I'm going to get. I'm just putting this out there for now so everyone has a heads up. We can still shoot for a group buy or do whatever. So here it is:
My set up will be a modular design. I'm going to have 4 heatsinks that are 5.5"X10". The reason for four of them is so I can place them as anywhere as needed. I'm going to have 12 lights on eat heatsink for a total of 48 lights (24- White XP-Gs and 24- Royal Blue XP-Es). I'm going to run them off of 4 meanwell dimmable drivers (ELN-60-48D). I'm going to run dimmers on each circut to adjust the very high output of the XP-G leds so that I can have the blue from the XP-E leds I desire. Any other blue suppliment I want I will get the led strips from Ecoxotic.com. They were very impresive at MAX. I'll be posting the prices for my build and try to get prices for bulk items as well. I'll try to get something up tomorrow...but I've been thinking LED for the past few hours and it's bed time! Please feel free to post your thoughts or prices you find.
P.S. my rough estimate for the 48 bulb set up of mine will put me at arond $550.

[superman858mm]

i am planning to do 2 modulars of the 12 cree white and 12 cree blue over my 35 gal cube and a friend of mine cube...n using only one heat sink plus the 2 meanwells per modular ....thanks..let get a group buy...

[Triggler]

Do you guys think 2 of these "50/50" strips would be enough for a 29 gal nano (30" long) ?

http://www.ecoxotic.com/products/mod...d-modules.html