Turf scrubber thread

[laffingcrow]

Here is one of the bulbs I use... 26 watts... a little brighter than the fully enclosed 23 watt bulbs recommended on the ATS site.
It does not have to be this brand but notice it says right on the box what color temp. it is... 2700k or soft white.


...also be sure to follow the rules...jk... very important. Change it out after four to five months just like your overhead t5s for exactly the same reason.

[vinny73]

I was reading on the turf scrubber FAQ page and it said that 3000k was best for algae growth. 300k isn't much difference but that's what it said. I went with the 2700 cool white cfl by your recomendation. Right next to the bulbs I bought were LED bulbs producing 3000k. Don't know how much they were but would have gotten that one for 5 watts less power than what I bought

[laffingcrow]

I was reading on the turf scrubber FAQ page and it said that 3000k was best for algae growth. 300k isn't much difference but that's what it said. I went with the 2700 cool white cfl by your recomendation. Right next to the bulbs I bought were LED bulbs producing 3000k. Don't know how much they were but would have gotten that one for 5 watts less power than what I bought

You are correct... anything close will work fine; 2700k-3000k which is "soft white" not cool white. Cool white is more like 4100k and WILL work but as the ATS site suggests the soft white is for the more efficient red algae.
By using the warmer light, you will be culturing more of the red algae which takes up more Nitrate and Phosphate than some of the green algae.
Now a cautionary statement about LEDs... they are a completely different animal all together with regard to lumens output and my research and testing using a light meter shows that they do not put out the same amount of intensity as compared to the compact florescent bulbs. You can also cover more area with the CFL than the LEDs. (I expect better ones will be available in the future)
I have one LED flood light that is "supposed" (advertised) to be as bright as a MR16 50 watt task lamp however I did not even have to get my light meter out to see that is was not. It would work great for reading but not producing robust algae growth; not to mention it cost ~$25. When I bought the LED I only intended to use it for a nano sized screen in a tight location and in fact I use it now but only to light a screen that is roughly 7"-8" sq. in size.
Two more things that are important... just use one of those clip on type reflectors to keep the light going in the right direction as close to the screen as you feel comfortable and change the bulb out after 4-6 months of use.
You can still use the bulb somewhere else until it dies however even though you will never see the difference with your eyes it will lose productive power that the algae will notice and just not be able to produce the growth you need for nutrient uptake. Consistant light intensity is really important and is part of a "properly" functioning ATS. Just like your overhead T5s.
With your original set up where the light was maybe 10"-12" away from your screen... just getting the light where it is 2"-3" away will increase your screens capacity to grow and therefore uptake nutrients probably five times and if you get another light on the other side... ten times.
Since your screen is so far away from your new overflow screen you should maybe put another light on it too; I'm sure you will notice the difference.
Also I forgot to mention... I think you said you never scraped the main screen before and it is difficult to get out; do not scrape it while in the system as this could cause the yellowing of the water that earlier trials found years ago.
I noticed that your original screen was brown and did not have much of a turf because the brown ugly stuff shades the micro algae and just does not allow it to progress; that is why the ATS site says to scrape it every week regardless and more often in the first few weeks if brown or black until you get a nice red/green turf established.
Sorry for the long answer but all is important for a "properly functioning" ATS; not rocket science but important. I say this because I see a lot of people getting distracted and using whatever materials they have lying around thinking anything will work.
Let us know what your growth is like over the next few weeks and then we can go over some of the other RULES about no skimmer, filter sock, foam blocks or Chaeto which will trap detritus and reduce performance. (too much for some to read and retain here) again that distraction thing... jk.
Thanks for asking great questions... let me know if you need anything... always here to help.
Brian

[Two Bit Scooter]

Another thought, it would probably be better to use a 23w with an internal reflector than a 26w without. Of course a 26w with a reflector would be even better.

[laffingcrow]

Be sure to check Lumens output usually printed on the box... I have found some 26 watt bulbs depending on mfr. that only put out the same intensity as 23 watt bulbs. Shop around for best price.
One advantage the 23 watt internal reflector has is a little better water resistance.
Without the reflector too much intensity is lost and therefore wasted energy.
Brian

[laffingcrow]

Incidently here is a freshwater ATS that I had running months before it came even came to my attention...
I built this bird bath with the intention of bringing the hummingbirds closer to the window for my cat to enjoy since she stays indoors.
I had no idea how many birds would find and use it...
It is nothing more than a large pot as resevoir, sealed with epoxy paint for pools and fountains, small powerhead pump, cord sealed with silicone.
Bricks to support the pot, screen mesh with rocks to hide the bricks and pump and hose through the hole in top of upside down pot.
The algae grew on the outside of the pot (did not really intend for that to happen but oh well...) and keeps the water clean as the birds deposit their nitrates and phosphates (poop).
I change the water weekly and take the whole thing apart once or twice a year. You can see in the first photo how the algae grew best on the sunny side of the pot which got turned when I cleaned it.




Like I said I had no idea how many birds from the neighborhood would find and use it daily.
Hummers (who hover and seem to float on the water like little green ducks), Hooded Oriole (pictured) Orange capped warbler (pictured) Finches who also nest outside the window every year (and sing their little hearts out), Spotted Towhees, Cal. Towhees, Wrentits, Black capped gold finches... I had to get a book just to identify all of them as they cue up every morning waiting by size and species to use the bath.
Enjoy...
Brian

[superman858mm]

hi Brian...where did u buy that bulb? thanks

[BajaReefs]

teasing the cat

[Triggler]

Thanks to Brian and his awesome tank I've been inspired and made my own ATS! Its running right now the screen is just starting to get a little green!

[laffingcrow]

hi Brian...where did u buy that bulb? thanks

Target, I think... that brand is available almost anywhere... two for around $10.

"teasing the cat"
She scratches at the window and sometimes just gets frustrated and walks away.

Triggler... be sure to post some pics once you get some good growth.

suver569... sorry to highjack your thread... got any pics of your growth, ...inventive spray bar???

Thanks,
Brian

[superman858mm]

thanks for everything Brian...

[ricenoodle]

So i am going to start one in my 60g cube once i get home. i have 2 ideas right now. you guys tell me what may work better. Tank has a rear center overflow with durso standpipe. since i'm trying to lower the volume back there anyway could i put suction cups all around the overflow and cut the screen to size so the water would drain from the tank onto the screen and into the overflow. Then add 2 clip lights on that instead? same concept right, water draining on top of screen with good lights. Or hookup a mj 1200 and have it push water through a series of 1" piping from my sump which one end is capped off hung over my fuge to be drilled with a bunch of holes and zip tie a screen there and the water draining my fuge. Which would be more efficient? I'll definately have pics up this weekend when i try this out. Oh yeah where is the best place to get the screens you guys used? Walmart or Home Depot?

[laffingcrow]

I think... if I understand what you are saying, the second option is best.
Check out post #26 page 2 of this thread to see what "fish king" did in the bucket design. Pazhope did something similar as well.
That set up is the easiest of all designs and can sit in a bucket, or sump or hang above your refugium if you have space. While the first option in your overflow has possibilities; the important thing to remember is the water flow has to be over all of the screen (screen cannot be in standing water) and your light falloff or intensity will suck at the bottom. The light needs to be within 4" or so; any farther away and it will not be as efficient as you need it to be. Even with the lights on top of the bucket design, the growth at the bottom of the screen will be less. Notice how Pazhope has his light right up against the screen and look at the growth... very even all across and up n' down...that's algae that would have grown in the tank without the ATS or lots of nutrient export some other way.
So... only a small portion of the screen should be in the water only to keep it from splashing and making noise. Any part of the screen actually in the water instead of water flowing over it will not be as efficient more like a refugium instead of the more efficient ATS. You will know what I mean once it has run for a few weeks.
Also if you just use holes instead of a slot for water flow you should think about shading the holes from the light as algae will grow out of the holes and eventually clog up big time...(notice the duct tape on pazhopes design) or make sure the water has some place to go when they do get clogged.
It's not a question of "if" they clog only when.
Also you can get the screen at Michaels or any craft store that sells needlepoint screen; if you can't find it ask them. See the picture of screen on "trigglers fuge ATS combo" in this same diy section. It's cheap and easy to find...and please don't waste your time with window screen................ as mentioned in a post above somewhere. I'm not even going to cover why.
... and this is important... scratch the hell out of both sides to make it as rough as possible to catch algae in the first few weeks until it takes root.
Also be sure to use compact flourescent 23 watts or more (see the picture above for reference) and remember to change them after four to five months (mark them with the date and do it religiously) because you are building this thing for performance... (you can not see the power loss with your eyes)... not to save on bulbs; they are cheap and can still be used somewhere else for a long time.
Hope this helps
Brian

...and post pics as well as tests once you get about four to five weeks in.

[pazhope]

Wel have been lazy and forgot to update my tank, so I will take the opportunity since Brian just mention my scrubber.

The design I made was pretty cheap and easy, it was suppose to be temporal, but I haven't change it, and it has been running great for four months now.

I have great flow on the screen, 550 gallons in a 13 inch wide screen and the light I use is a round 33 W T5 light with a reflector so it is all over the screen.

I dont have a camera around so these pictures are from my cell phone
Today shots




Before:



Can you guys see the difference? it appears I change some green for pink and red

The scrubber:


As you can see I add a couple of elbows at the end to handle the extra flow of water, normally you will see very little flow over there, but i remove the tape by accident. I am planning to put it back on the weekend.

Also the algae I am growing on the screen is more like a turf, at the beginning it was a lot of hair algae, this one is more effective you will see for your self.

[ensiferum321]

Tanks looking very healthy! Nice improvement!