Turf scrubber thread

[suver569]

I'm starting to build a turf scrubber. I'm using a 2.5g paint bucket from home depot, using a pretty genius (IMO) spray bar I designed.

I have some parts built, and I'm documenting with pics and will start uploading them this monday.

I'm curious to know if anyone is currently using a turf scrubber and if so, how's it working?

Pics coming soon!

[pazhope]

I just started running mine yesterday, will let you know my results when I see any progress.

Is a 13' x 19' screen with a 33 W T5, 2700 light, 500 gph flow.

[sgriffin760]

whats a turf scrubber

[Live Water Aquariums]

Algal Turf Scrubber, or ATS. Filters the water with turf algae, rather than the macro algae usually cultured in refugium.
It's very efficient. Apparently the patent on the filter is about to expire so this will become a more mainstream style of filtration as it starts becoming commercially available. You are about to hear a lot about turf scrubbers. There are guys on RC. trying to dose nitrates into their system because the turf scrubbers are so efficient. It'll be fun to watch your build, thanks for sharing.

[lowfi]

there has almost been some sort of "spammer" that has been posting a TON online at various forums about turf scrubbers. especially reps them pretty hard on RC.

[Live Water Aquariums]

there has almost been some sort of "spammer" that has been posting a TON online at various forums about turf scrubbers. especially reps them pretty hard on RC.

I've seen that guy all over, pretty ridiculous, kind of turns people off to the whole idea, with all the outrages claims he makes.

[sgriffin760]

so the guy that started this thread is a comp or just a spammer

[BigAir]

The OP is not the spammer they refer to.

[goody]

I just sold some palys to a member on here and he is running a turf scrubber. He said his nitrates were at 0 and it was going very successfully for him. I can't remember his username, but it is the only reason he said he got back in the hobby.

[pazhope]

Well there are a bunch of different opinions so I decided to try it for my self.
I have a 90G with a hang on the back skimmer and my nitrate levels are around 5 - 10 ppm, before spending more cash on a bigger skimmer I decide to give it a try.

Maybe its just a waste of time or maybe it works, I just have spend like 5 dlls on it.

[suver569]

Lol, I'm not a spammer. I've been on this site for over 5 years.

Anyway, I have it up and running, I'll have pics tomorrow. Just trying to work out one little kink. It's slurping like mad! I'm probably just going to have to pick up a "T" fitting for my return line since the return is gravity fed, and put a breather line in. Should have all the pics tomorrow if I have the slurping problem fixed.

[laffingcrow]

Spammer ... lol (thats why there are "I got kicked off RC" tee shirts lol)
When something works better than mainstream there will always be non believers and haters... The Science is sound, do your research and anyone with access to a dremel tool or grinder and a drill can make one for less than $20. You just have to be a DIYer.
Just like Goody said in in his earlier post, It is the reason I got back into the hobby after a 20 year absence. Lot's of things have changed.
I'll put together a diy post in the future so I can explain more about why and how... but to keep it short here, I stumbled onto it while researching to help a friend. In the mean time I've built a few ATS (I've been culturing algae with no tank since may) and had my own plans of building and selling them but needed a test tank. Even had lunch with the director of Marine Biodiversity at Scripps who used to have an algae lab himself to talk about the specifics of light reguirements, species, color etc.
Now for the nut...
I aquired a 20 gal. tank mid November w/ hammer, frogspawn, clown, urchin, shrimp and shrooms. Nitrates were about 20 ppm. Now 0.
He was using Scripps water (how can I not use it; it's just down the street for me) NO SKIMMER and just a small penguin hang on the back filter.
The tank looked good; no nuisance algae, lots of coralline.
I did a few water changes over the next two weeks and then put on my best newest design of ATS below the tank in the cabinet out of sight in my 5 gal. bucket/sump. That was the end of Novemer and was my LAST WATER CHANGE never measured any phosphates. (had the ATS on for two weeks before getting my test kit)
It takes about 4 to 6 weeks to get what I call the "MAGIC CARPET" TM(you heard it here first) of algae growing on your "harvesting" screen.
It goes through changes but the end result is a carpet like growth of micro alga (proper plural... I was corrected) of which will be determined by what is already in your system.
The ATS simply provides a place for your algae to grow better because the light and water flow and therefore NUTRIENTS not nutrition are better there.
In other words you grow your algae in you cabinet out of sight and out of mind rather than your display tank AND you harvest and throw away (do not feed back) instead of changing water to get rid of nitrates and phosphates, ammonia, CO2, heavy metals...
That's right... I scrape algae once a week (5 min.) instead of changing water. (and I could walk to get scripps water if I had to)
I feed a ton... don't have any fish right now (one of those "spammer" (lol)guys made his own constant feeder and feeds a chilled frozen mix of food constantly. The ATS handles the load... the talk is now how much more load we will be putting on once your scrubber is up and running.
I only have a bag of carbon other than the ATS, NO skimmer, no sock, no phosphate reactor, no DSB, or denitrifier, screen, fuge or anything to hold back the nutrition flowing through the system.
When I feed... all the food stays in the tank for everything all the way down the food chain. I've even seen a flake of food come back out of the return intact. (only 2 sq. inches/ gal. of scrapable screen is necessary depending on load)

Oh yea, algae removes CO2 and in so doing keeps your ph up over night by having the ATS light on a reverse cycle to your display tank.
Great oxygen exchange because there is a constant flow of water over the screen and if you have a way of draining the water from the ATS back into the tank rather than pumping it then it becomes a super copepod generator, great for your tank. (I converted that penguin hob into a copepod feeder with a small screen that gets light from above)

I could go on but there is less hate and sceptisizm when you believe it for yourself... there is one central Hater at RC who has turned this really helpful info into a the spammer earlier reffered to...do your own research; here is where I started...

This is (I think) the spammer guy earlier reffered to and really the one person who inspired me the most: Santamonica is his screen name and he has been one of the most generous reefers to date on any forum; he has tirelessly posted info and DIY plans and pics from all over the world in an honest effort to advance our hobby and he has no interest in any economic gain what so ever. IMO a real stan up guy; in the mean time the RC loudmouth says nothing but falsehoods and shows he doesn't know it all. He says you can't keep SPS without carbon (vodka, vinegar) dosing. lol
You can if you feed them enough. The ATS allows all of the food to be consumed instead of being skimmed out.(Too bad you saw anything on RC... IMO)
Check this out first:
AlgaeScrubber.net (the faq 3.5 and 48 hours of additional research was all I needed to convert)
Also:
Eric Borneman was early in the game and stumbled onto it himself many years ago; he is a scientist and has a new book "Aquarium Corals selection,husbandry, and naural history" He only mentions the ATS briefly here.
Also:
Dr Addy at the Smithsonian Institution is the original patent holder for one specific alternate design of ATS as well as other patents on other amazing uses of algae from coastal clean up to bio fuels.

My tank:[IMG][/IMG]
Thanks for your interest
Brian

[Live Water Aquariums]

If I sounded like a hater I apologize. The guy who "spammed" every reefing site with his turf info really came off as a nut. I understand he maybe just really believes in what he's doing, but he made incredible claims without substantial data to back them up. I strongly believe in the value of algae as filtration and am open to learn more and use these ideas myself.

When people get on and say never change water again, or dose anything, red flags go up everywhere. We have seen this too many times over the years and I believe it does a dis-service to the technology to overstate it's value.

I'm glad it works for you and I'm sure it can work for anyone, I just hope that the benefits of one filtration tactic can be discussed without bashing all other techniques.

Please share more, I really feel this is a positive advance that will become more common as it becomes more commercially viable due to patent expiration.

Again I personally am not a hater, quite the opposite, I think this filter has great potential. It's just hard when people say throw everything else away.

Now I'm going to have to go build one and try it out to prove I'm not a hater.

[ReefMaster]

Basically a Wet-Dry Filter above water with a light...
High surface area for bacterial film, nitrates, phosphates, algae grows, throw out the algae.
I'm sure it works and is efficient. But a wet-dry filter would be way more efficient than a flat plate.
It's just hard to clean the bioballs.

The irony of how history repeats itself. Not really a new idea, just someone accidentally discovered it and called it their own.

Please show us your setup, we would like to see how you did it.

[stephj03]

I have a few questions about this approach. Not a skeptic, genuinely curious.

What is the timescale that the algae grows back in after harvesting under normal tank stocking conditions when using this as the only filration?

What picks up the slack between the time your harvest and the time the algae grows back? Or do you only harvest a little at a time?

When you harvest, how do you leave seed algae on the device for the next harvest without leaving loose pieces on it that can wash into and grow in the main display?