bad news

[Nico]

I vote for the time machine it could be useful in so many events not just this one Including this post it would seem.

[zoa]

Oceans are our greatest reservoir of CO2 the concentrations stored in the atmosphere pale in comparison to what is stored in the ocean. The worst part about the cycle is that it takes 100 years for CO2 levels to decline and we never give them the chance... we just continue to pump more and more into the earth, water and air. If the permafrost melts and releases the vast quantities of methane stored beneath it wont just be the reef ecosystems that we will have to worry about.

From the UN:
http://www.unep.org/geo/yearbook/yb2...08_Full_EN.pdf
UNEP Year Book An Overview of Our Changing Environment 2008

[jrod11]

Whether or not anyone agrees with Al Gore or believe global warming is true or not is not the issue. It is plain and simple that we do not take care of our environment and have become complacent.

I guess I better start upgrading my tank to a 2,000 gallon system. I could justify it by saying "i want my kids to be able to see all the corals that existed!"

[fishtankcrazy]

Haha it was meant as a joke since I know 99% of this forum are liberals... even though i do believe he's destroying this country and we will never fully recover.

But no I do not believe that humans are causing permanent climate change... I believe the earth can heal itself over time as many scientists do. We happen to be at the 12,000 year mark of a 15,000 year hot cycle at the moment. I didn't go into details, well cause it would turn into one long ass debate haha and i'm tired of arguing with hippies... Go Jerry Coleman (some may know why)... But when I here people like Al Gore (who i do respect for helping the environment) come and out say there's no debate, climate change is reality, well its simply not proven to be true yet.. science is always a debate....and the world is split on the issue. Unfortunately when a group is whining a lot, they get press, then the media spins it and makes it look like everyone agrees when that simply isn't true.

However, I do recycle just about everything possible, and try not to be a waster, and fully believe in doing what we can (within economic reality) to have less of an impact. I'm an environmentalist and a realist at the same time.

But thank you very much for not deleting my post... Woah to think in this country and on this forum we still have the freedom to disagree, for now anyways...

Thanks for the post! So perceptive, so well written, based on facts and not just simple opinions. I love it when people actually look at the posts and read the links in them, then comment on them in rational ways that contribute to the conversation. Thanks for adding your amazing insight and well versed witty comments to all of the scientific evidence out there. It is just this kind of addition that contributes to the solution of our many planetary issues. Wish I could write like that. You should get yourself a publicist.

[barometer]

Haha it was meant as a joke since I know 99% of this forum are liberals... even though i do believe he's destroying this country and we will never fully recover.

But no I do not believe that humans are causing permanent climate change... I believe the earth can heal itself over time as many scientists do. We happen to be at the 12,000 year mark of a 15,000 year hot cycle at the moment. I didn't go into details, well cause it would turn into one long ass debate haha and i'm tired of arguing with hippies... Go Jerry Coleman (some may know why)... But when I here people like Al Gore (who i do respect for helping the environment) come and out say there's no debate, climate change is reality, well its simply not proven to be true yet.. science is always a debate....and the world is split on the issue.

However, I do recycle just about everything possible, and try not to be a waster, and fully believe in doing what we can (within economic reality) to have less of an impact. I'm an environmentalist and a realist at the same time.

But thank you very much for not deleting my post... Woah to think in this country and on this forum we still have the freedom to disagree, for now anyways...

freedom to disagree.....yes. But sometimes it's smarter to say nothing than to put yourself out there in what is essentially public for peeps to judge.....especially on a board where interaction with it's membership is pretty much a given

[fishtankcrazy]

umm last time i check forums are public, so whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant, anything posted can be judged by the public. sorry i'm not one of those people hung up on what people think... I about fell over when you basically said if one disagrees he should be silent...

Yes i know interaction with members happens all the time.. But this discussion was about politics which has nothing to do with people in person. Politically I disagree with many of you, but have met many in person and they are great people... I don't hold anybody's beliefs against them when I meet in person... Fish dealings are separate of politics haha.

freedom to disagree.....yes. But sometimes it's smarter to say nothing than to put yourself out there in what is essentially public for peeps to judge.....especially on a board where interaction with it's membership is pretty much a given

[Diver Dan]

But this discussion was about politics which has nothing to do with people in person. Politically I disagree with many of you, but have met many in person and they are great people... I don't hold anybody's beliefs against them when I meet in person... Fish dealings are separate of politics haha.

Yeah well you go ahead and reread the posts before your original and tell me how many people had a hint of a political agenda.


Sucks about the reefs dying
People just don't care about the planet... I went surfing in Pt. Loma last night, a pretty unpopulated beach compared to MB, PB, and La Jolla, and i was swimming in trash. 5 gallon buckets in the lineup, soda cans, plastic bags... The water was so murky i couldn't see the bottom in 3 feet of water; pretty scary when we haven't had any swell to stir up the bottom in weeks.

Nature can fix itself to an extent. But, IMO, the earth is showing all the signs of permanent decay. Everything is out of balance; huge wildfires, plant and animal populations hanging on for dear life, fat people. If you want to know how bad the earth is going to get just look at an obese guy... Sure you can lose 400lb, but you're still going to have 5 feet of extra skin somewhere... We are going to have to live with this 5 feet of extra skin for the rest of our lives.

Sorry for the typos on a sticky mac keyboard...

[jrod11]

Yeah well you go ahead and reread the posts before your original and tell me how many people had a hint of a political agenda.


Sucks about the reefs dying
People just don't care about the planet... I went surfing in Pt. Loma last night, a pretty unpopulated beach compared to MB, PB, and La Jolla, and i was swimming in trash. 5 gallon buckets in the lineup, soda cans, plastic bags... The water was so murky i couldn't see the bottom in 3 feet of water; pretty scary when we haven't had any swell to stir up the bottom in weeks.

Nature can fix itself to an extent. But, IMO, the earth is showing all the signs of permanent decay. Everything is out of balance; huge wildfires, plant and animal populations hanging on for dear life, fat people. If you want to know how bad the earth is going to get just look at an obese guy... Sure you can lose 400lb, but you're still going to have 5 feet of extra skin somewhere... We are going to have to live with this 5 feet of extra skin for the rest of our lives.

Sorry for the typos on a sticky mac keyboard...

Your fat man, extra skin is a great analogy! However, i could have done without the sticky keyboard

[barometer]

umm last time i check forums are public, so whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant, anything posted can be judged by the public. sorry i'm not one of those people hung up on what people think... I about fell over when you basically said if one disagrees he should be silent...

Yes i know interaction with members happens all the time.. But this discussion was about politics which has nothing to do with people in person. Politically I disagree with many of you, but have met many in person and they are great people... I don't hold anybody's beliefs against them when I meet in person... Fish dealings are separate of politics haha.

this is exactly what I'm talking about. Post all day your disagreements, I'll not argue with that and believe that was clear in my previous post for those who understand English. I also think as the OP I know what my intentions were and this is not a political thread.....or this a political rebuttal for that matter. You know what they say about assumptions. When your words are just stupid speculation you make yourself look quite unintelligent.....that's when it's best to be silent and the only thing I'm addressing *waiting for next completey off-base response*

Now back to the subject at hand......as zoa so simply put it this is a carbon dioxide issue that will eventually affect life on the planet. Destruction of an entire ecosystem WILL have some kind of domino effect, even if we don't know what exactly that will be yet. I don't believe that this time nature will right itself as the damage seems to grow exponentially. Only time will tell I suppose.

[Lic3nc3ToKlLL]

Well i'm sure if they went in YOUR tank they'd just commit mass suicide... I mean even single celled organisms have standards :P. Its been a while

haha Jess you and I it's just something special! lol I know it's been forever I'll be seein ya saturday!

[stbrendan619]

this is so F'ind depressing. It kills me to think about all the wonders of the deep that will die with us never even knowing it existed. this sucks!

[fishtankcrazy]

When has climate change not been political?

I like your analogy about fat people... Though its not totally correct. I knew a girl who lost 350lbs and had very little extra skin... If you lose weight the right way the skin (since I don't know the medical term) magically shrinks too.

Yeah the oceans suck down here... but a lot of the crap in our water is not just us polluting but the bad run off from over the border.

Yeah well you go ahead and reread the posts before your original and tell me how many people had a hint of a political agenda.


Sucks about the reefs dying
People just don't care about the planet... I went surfing in Pt. Loma last night, a pretty unpopulated beach compared to MB, PB, and La Jolla, and i was swimming in trash. 5 gallon buckets in the lineup, soda cans, plastic bags... The water was so murky i couldn't see the bottom in 3 feet of water; pretty scary when we haven't had any swell to stir up the bottom in weeks.

Nature can fix itself to an extent. But, IMO, the earth is showing all the signs of permanent decay. Everything is out of balance; huge wildfires, plant and animal populations hanging on for dear life, fat people. If you want to know how bad the earth is going to get just look at an obese guy... Sure you can lose 400lb, but you're still going to have 5 feet of extra skin somewhere... We are going to have to live with this 5 feet of extra skin for the rest of our lives.

Sorry for the typos on a sticky mac keyboard...

[fishtankcrazy]

Umm actually this was posted in the local news thread which is separate from the fish part of the forumn, and is a political / science post. Climate change is just "assumptions" and "speculation". No concrete proof yet. I find its similar to religious people.. They have a belief that something exists with no proof, just a belief. Climate change people are the same.

The reality is it will take thousands or years, probably past human existence, for you to prove if your right or not.

this is exactly what I'm talking about. Post all day your disagreements, I'll not argue with that and believe that was clear in my previous post for those who understand English. I also think as the OP I know what my intentions were and this is not a political thread.....or this a political rebuttal for that matter. You know what they say about assumptions. When your words are just stupid speculation you make yourself look quite unintelligent.....that's when it's best to be silent and the only thing I'm addressing *waiting for next completey off-base response*

[sevlar]

Come on, comparing science to religion? Really?

Umm actually this was posted in the local news thread which is separate from the fish part of the forumn, and is a political / science post. Climate change is just "assumptions" and "speculation". No concrete proof yet. I find its similar to religious people.. They have a belief that something exists with no proof, just a belief. Climate change people are the same.

The reality is it will take thousands or years, probably past human existence, for you to prove if your right or not.

[Techknowledgy]

Okay,

I just read this whole post again. (Love you too Diego, also not in that way.) Read the freaking post. Here is a quote:

"Charlie Veron, former chief scientist of the Australian Institute of Marine Science, told The Times: “There is no way out, no loopholes. The Great Barrier Reef will be over within 20 years or so.”

This guy is no slouch. Look at who he was speaking to, not a bunch of "hippies" but other world class scientists. This is not a political post, you went there. Then you compare "global warming" to religion? Huh?

"Climate change is just "assumptions" and "speculation". No concrete proof yet. I find its similar to religious people.. They have a belief that something exists with no proof, just a belief. Climate change people are the same." Huh?

How in the world can you hope to have people take anything you say seriously when you post stuff like that?

Do some research before you just out of right field say "the jury is still out." There is a mountain of evidence. Use that keyboard to do a little research from real scientists who actually do this for a living. It makes for a real argument for your position. Then present your argument without being condescending to your fellow reefers and dismissively saying it is "political."

That trash around Trev's board is real. What has happened to the marine life just off the coast here is real. I have seen it, firsthand, in my OWN lifetime. 30 years ago we had to have a limit on abalone to keep us from overfishing. Anyone even seen one recently?