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[Techknowledgy]

The crash started way before September '08. We can't pin any mess on only GW anymore than we can on only BHO. The congress shifted hands from right to left two years ago...

It happened on his watch. Congress shifted, yes, but not with enough votes to veto Curious George's ideas. Civics 101. History will not be kind to him. Just look at what the budget looked like in 2000 compared to now. I thought the Republicans were all about personal responsibility? IF we are not better off at the end of Obama's term, I will blame him. Change is hard, but change is good.

[Diver Dan]

I am glad a moderator is on my side

[Techknowledgy]

I am glad a moderator is on my side

Funny Young Jedi. I am on the side of being smart, and not reactionary. I am on the side of respecting the planet, and still maintaining our standard of living. I am on the side of looking forward, doing the right thing and being optomistic. If that is your side. I guess I am on it. It is not black and white, it is a million shades of grey, with some hot pink zoas mixed in.

...

[Blaze]

so what purpose would it serve to do that? point the blame were the blame is due.one man can not ruin a country as bad as you claim he did,its been a long line and a very long trickle down effect.

lets back up and start with the casue,the start of america and the corruption in it,you can not blame solely George bush for our current problems.
lets look at the brining about of taxes in america by Congress and signes into power by WoodRow WIlson in 1919(the federal reserve act).Accordidng to the costitution Taxes are Illiegal

The Seventeenth Amendment (Amendment XVII) to the United States Constitution was passed by the Senate on June 12, 1911, the House of Representatives on May 13, 1912, and ratified by the states on April 8, 1913. FALSE the Ammendment was not raddified. they clame it was but it was not making your boy obama boy boy bush and every one before him from 1913 till now null and void. lets look at the fac tthat Michelle obama was told by the illinois Supreme court, You Can not practice law any further. everthing is null and void from that date on,why not get a copy of the "fereralist papers" and read it all this stuff your boy wants to do is told to us by the founding fathers that if this stuff happens(whast happining now) we will be introuble. but hell were not talking about politics and fish were just saying crusify bush?

[Blaze]

Funny Young Jedi. I am on the side of being smart, and not reactionary. I am on the side of respecting the planet, and still maintaining our standard of living. I am on the side of looking forward, doing the right thing and being optomistic. If that is your side. I guess I am on it. It is not black and white, it is a million shades of grey, with some hot pink zoas mixed in.

...

the way our country is suppose to be run is suppose to be black and white,we have made it into the shades of grey BS.

[Blaze]

Thre questions:
Which president left with a surplus?
Which president left with a deficit?
Which party do you want getting us out of it?

Back to the banning of species! Ban them all!!! I have enough livestock!

we never had a surplus we just had a lower dept at some times than others.we had to barrow money to star the country and every time we have spent money as a nation we have put ourselves more in the hole.
every time we went to war,cival, desert storm/shield, we have been in dept dont give me this its all GW's fault BS.and you cant tell me that spending how many trillion is in anyway good,there is no way we can dig ourselves out of that mess.



but back to fish,at face value this looks bad,the outer package is what shapes the way we look at things.

[SolRo]

so what purpose would it serve to do that? point the blame were the blame is due.one man can not ruin a country as bad as you claim he did,its been a long line and a very long trickle down effect.

He and cheney ran the country, republican congress followed them like a stray dog. Anything positive dems tried to do 2006-2008 was vetoed by GW, who didn't veto a single thing until dems came into power.

lets back up and start with the casue,the start of america and the corruption in it,you can not blame solely George bush for our current problems.
lets look at the brining about of taxes in america by Congress and signes into power by WoodRow WIlson in 1919(the federal reserve act).Accordidng to the costitution Taxes are Illiegal

The Seventeenth Amendment (Amendment XVII) to the United States Constitution was passed by the Senate on June 12, 1911, the House of Representatives on May 13, 1912, and ratified by the states on April 8, 1913. FALSE the Ammendment was not raddified. they clame it was but it was not making your boy obama boy boy bush and every one before him from 1913 till now null and void. lets look at the fac tthat Michelle obama was told by the illinois Supreme court, You Can not practice law any further. everthing is null and void from that date on,why not get a copy of the "fereralist papers" and read it all this stuff your boy wants to do is told to us by the founding fathers that if this stuff happens(whast happining now) we will be introuble. but hell were not talking about politics and fish were just saying crusify bush?

So taxes are to blame for this? OK

Don't you guys know that the government knows how to take care of everything better than the private sector. They just have our best interest in mind, they are saving us from ourselves...

Yes, that private banking sector sure did know what was best for the economy!

[warjose]

Let me bring up a few minor details & see what you think. Do y'all know which party was in charge of congress during Clinton's term (hint: Newt Gingrich). Clinton left us a nice surplus because he gutted the military & left us open to attack while he hit on interns (hint: 9/11) (Please don't say 9/11 was an inside job, the intelligent conversation will end if you do). Also, what did Clinton have to do with the Internet economic boom of the '90s? (oh yeah Al Gore invented the Internet)

[SolRo]

Let me bring up a few minor details & see what you think. Do y'all know which party was in charge of congress during Clinton's term (hint: Newt Gingrich). Clinton left us a nice surplus because he gutted the military & left us open to attack while he hit on interns (hint: 9/11) (Please don't say 9/11 was an inside job, the intelligent conversation will end if you do). Also, what did Clinton have to do with the Internet economic boom of the '90s? (oh yeah Al Gore invented the Internet)

What intelligent conversation?

Tanks and warplanes wouldn't have stopped 12 guys with box-cutters.

How quickly your side forgets the memo and warnings clinton passed on to bushy and his gang of idiots, who quickly ignored them.

[Diver Dan]

"When the guy that you disagree with gets elected, hes prabably going to do things that you disagree with; he could cut taxes on the wealthy, remove government oversight capability, invade a country that you thought should not be invaded, but thats not tyranny. Thats democracy see now your in the minority, its supposed to taste like a **** taco..."

"For god sakes guys, you've been out of power for ten weeks you got a midterm election in ten months, this stress is not good for you"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...knophobia-obey

[Blaze]

the country was not started in 04' was it?no. we have had our ups and downs as a Nation since the beggining.you can by no means solely blame one man for anything,sure none of our presedents are perfect but you guys keep getting stuck on this 5h1t about its George bushes fault,its not solely him,Like i said why dont y'all get off the computer and go back and read the books like the Federalist Papers,see what you still say then.
Clinton had a Rep congress if im not mistaken. i mean your boy obama is by far the Holiest man on earth you act as though he is.

and Sol,i was pointing out that track back in history and see were the problem stated that was one example of the problems we have had.

[Blaze]

Trever lets walk away from the TV for 5 min, and look at the real world,these guys you LOVe are full of crap and if you were smart you would know that.

Stop Blaming Sh*t on Bush and look at the root.

[stephj03]

Right now enough Americans to vote in a prez are comforted by an expansion of government (including that proposed inthe afore mention bill) amidst a backdrop of percieved crisis, financial and otherwise. Whether or not the perception is accurate or the expansion is good/bad remains to be seen. But someting that is clear is that few people are going to be swayed from either position in the near future. Certainly not by a thread about a bill like this. Whether or not we still get to keep reef tanks is not going to do anything to make Probamas attribute anything bad that happens in the next 4yrs to anyone but Bush. After all Obama isn't Bush and Bush is the source of most of our problems to such people. Likewise this bill ins't going to change any of the minds of any who are skittish about growing the gov so big so fast. When this thread gets locked 9 pages down the line none of the posters or viewers are going to be left thinking "wow, I'm glad I read that thread about invasive species regulation, it totally changed my paradigm about politics in America"lol. This is all just intellectual masturbation. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go get a tissue and put the lotion away.

[warjose]

Well put Stehj03, but it's still fun...

[Techknowledgy]

This just in: Clinton was not the President on 9/11. Bush was. If the same thing happened right now, do you not think it would not ALL be Obama's fault? (According to the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy?) Goldman Sachs is paying back money from the TARP Bill. It is April 14th, 2009, not 1911. Obama gave the shoot order (twice) to take out three pirates who were holding one of us hostage.

Trevor is one of the smartest kids I know. He even writes in complete sentences. I am pretty sure there is not a love affair with Obama, at least not from me. Just this icky taste in my mouth from living through the last eight years.