Pond Advice

[malakaikingston]

Okay I am at the point I want to get this done.

My pond is 13l-4w-4'd.



It has stepped sided and another set of steps on both ends, the side steps drop 1' and the end steps drop 6" then 2'.

Side

[_                         _]
   [_                    _]
      [___________]

Top Down <- Return, X Wall, G Garage, F Filter, 55 55g Drum
________________
[___SHALLOW____] XG
[_S_]_DEEP__[_S_] <-XG F
[___SHALLOW____] XG 55

The pond is next to the wall of my house and dug into a cement planter box, the cement walls are 2' deep then I dug another 2' into the ground.

Equipment

I plan on using the following.

Carpet Padding
EPDM Liner

Laguna 1400 UV-Bio Flow
55 G Drum as an external reservoir

That is as far as I have gotten, now I have questions.

1. Should I use pond liner or should I cement it?

2. Where do I put the line in for the filter in the pond? Opposite end? Water Line? Under Water?

3. Will I need a prefilter?

4. Is this filter good?

5. Is there anything I am overlooking?

6. Should I run the plumbing under the liner? Over?

7. With the pond so close to my house's siding do I need to worry about humidity and evap effecting my house?

8. I just used a sand/mud/water mixture to make the steps on the ends, will these hold up when I put the liner in and fill her up?

9. This location only gets indirect sun, is that good/bad?

10. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I have no pond experience and am about as useless as nipples on a wooden nickle when it comes to plumbing so ANY advice is awesome.

If any of you pond masters can spare a half hour looking over what I am working on I will proffer a six pack of your choice for the help.

[tom619]

hey at least you got the right attitude for a pond, right kai? lol

i'm really concerned about it being against your house siding. how are you going to attach liner to it?

yes, i would be concerned about evap and the life of your siding.
I made my pond frame out of wood, as you can see, so this is relevant to me. and i have to re-stain with an outdoor waterproof protective stain every couple of years. not sure how your house would hold up. it's a bigger investment.

i heard rumors that certain type of cement is "toxic" so becareful with which type you choose. not too familiar with it.

you need a pre-filter if you have a lot of fish, leaves, or plants and have a lot of roots, debris. ever since i installed a pre-filter, my main filter cloggs less and lasts longer. good investment.

You cant go wrong with laguna

Indirect sunlight: depends on what kinda livestocks you wanna keep. Lilies, plants, the more sun the the better. Koi’s colors are more vibrant if they’ve been exposed to uv sunlight regularly. I took my kois indoor to my livingroom tank and their colors got whack.

[malakaikingston]

hey at least you got the right attitude for a pond, right kai? lol

i'm really concerned about it being against your house siding. how are you going to attach liner to it?

yes, i would be concerned about evap and the life of your siding.
I made my pond frame out of wood, as you can see, so this is relevant to me. and i have to re-stain with an outdoor waterproof protective stain every couple of years. not sure how your house would hold up. it's a bigger investment.

i heard rumors that certain type of cement is "toxic" so becareful with which type you choose. not too familiar with it.

you need a pre-filter if you have a lot of fish, leaves, or plants and have a lot of roots, debris. ever since i installed a pre-filter, my main filter cloggs less and lasts longer. good investment.

You cant go wrong with laguna

Indirect sunlight: depends on what kinda livestocks you wanna keep. Lilies, plants, the more sun the the better. Koi’s colors are more vibrant if they’ve been exposed to uv sunlight regularly. I took my kois indoor to my livingroom tank and their colors got whack.

No idea how I am going to attach the liner, I was thinking 1/2" strapping drilled into the crete?

Yea if I did do crete it would need to be potable.

Cool I will get a pre filter, and that also helps me to figure out where I will put it.

Sun - Should I install some sort of solar tubes so my pond can get more light?

Thank you Tom I mean; only person on the forum that actually cares about me to respond to my questions.

FEAR THE BAT

[tom619]

No idea how I am going to attach the liner, I was thinking 1/2" strapping drilled into the crete?

Yea if I did do crete it would need to be potable.

Cool I will get a pre filter, and that also helps me to figure out where I will put it.

Sun - Should I install some sort of solar tubes so my pond can get more light?

Thank you Tom I mean; only person on the forum that actually cares about me to respond to my questions.

FEAR THE BAT

-yeah i can totally see the 1/2" strap working
-not too familiar with solar tubes
-you're welcome to come check out my pond whenever you want to get some ideas. it's pretty practical and portable. all panels of the pond is simply attached with latch inside so when i move, i just unhook and transport each panel. homemade filter. water is crystal clear. i have underwater accent lights too =]

[nahtanoj]

dig hole, fill with water, fill with fish. how hard could it be?

[johnc]

I only use concrete. Then I put portland cement on top to smooth everything out and then something like an epoxy sealer. That would protect you from water that might seep under your house and prevent any more lime from going into the water. Lime is what screws up the water in concrete ponds.

Filtration depends on what your adding to the pond. What did you have in mind.

[malakaikingston]

I only use concrete. Then I put portland cement on top to smooth everything out and then something like an epoxy sealer. That would protect you from water that might seep under your house and prevent any more lime from going into the water. Lime is what screws up the water in concrete ponds.

Filtration depends on what your adding to the pond. What did you have in mind.

What epoxy sealer do you use? How thick would I have to do the cement? How do you cement vertical surfaces?

I am putting in a few koi, mousiqito fish and lots of partial shade plants.

[johnc]

Concrete doesn't have to be that thick, 2 inches would be fine, I've even done less. Use some kind of mesh, like lath with bigger holes or stucco netting. Use spacers to keep it off the surface of the dirt, commercially made dobies will be too big so you can use rocks or rebar and use the huge staples they sell for jute netting to hold it together. Make the concrete really dry so it wont run and just start at the bottom and build up. Once it drys make a runny slurry of portland and sponge it all over that is what I think holds it all together. The sealer is Pond Armor, I haven't used it myself but it looks like really good stuff, I am planning on pond armoring my pond later this year. You can also get Xypex from Home Depot or Whitecap but I think the Portland Cement does the same thing. The Pond Armor is good because it is so close to your house.

I am a huge do it yourselfer and work by trial and error so you might want to just go with the pond liner, I just hate how it wrinkles. Next I am going to try the cement fiber boards they use as backing for tile work. Looks like it will be easy to use that for vertical walls.

Your filter looks good, I couldn't find the exact filter you are looking at online, do you have a link? Lagunas are good and the UV will keep things clear. Depending on your bioload you might have to upgrade later but thats only if you let the fish get really big or try to overload the pond. I wouldn't do prefilters unless your have a lot of oxygenators, a few marginals and potted plants aren't really going to need a prefilter. Not a bad thing but feel like spending extra money go for it, reaching into freezing water to get it out to clean also sucks. For my ponds it doesn't seem to keep the bio filter cleaner, the bio filter only clogs from really small particles and most prefilters are too pourous for that anyways otherwise you will be cleaning your prefilter every day. All that said, I do have one; but its mainly because the box has a huge surface area and that prevents my frogs from getting stuck to the filter.

[malakaikingston]

I think I am going to usecement cause my ponds shape will cause super wrinkles, you are real close any chance I could bribe you with a six pack to look at my base?

Concrete doesn't have to be that thick, 2 inches would be fine, I've even done less. Use some kind of mesh, like lath with bigger holes or stucco netting. Use spacers to keep it off the surface of the dirt, commercially made dobies will be too big so you can use rocks or rebar and use the huge staples they sell for jute netting to hold it together. Make the concrete really dry so it wont run and just start at the bottom and build up. Once it drys make a runny slurry of portland and sponge it all over that is what I think holds it all together. The sealer is Pond Armor, I haven't used it myself but it looks like really good stuff, I am planning on pond armoring my pond later this year. You can also get Xypex from Home Depot or Whitecap but I think the Portland Cement does the same thing. The Pond Armor is good because it is so close to your house.

I am a huge do it yourselfer and work by trial and error so you might want to just go with the pond liner, I just hate how it wrinkles. Next I am going to try the cement fiber boards they use as backing for tile work. Looks like it will be easy to use that for vertical walls.

Your filter looks good, I couldn't find the exact filter you are looking at online, do you have a link? Lagunas are good and the UV will keep things clear. Depending on your bioload you might have to upgrade later but thats only if you let the fish get really big or try to overload the pond. I wouldn't do prefilters unless your have a lot of oxygenators, a few marginals and potted plants aren't really going to need a prefilter. Not a bad thing but feel like spending extra money go for it, reaching into freezing water to get it out to clean also sucks. For my ponds it doesn't seem to keep the bio filter cleaner, the bio filter only clogs from really small particles and most prefilters are too pourous for that anyways otherwise you will be cleaning your prefilter every day. All that said, I do have one; but its mainly because the box has a huge surface area and that prevents my frogs from getting stuck to the filter.

[johnc]

I can come by, I am no expert or anything but I am willing to take a look and give you some ideas and tips from my experience. Great thing with concrete is it is really easy to fix with just more concrete. PM me with your work schedule, I probably can't come by this week but the week of the 5th I am pretty free.

[davocean]

Hey Kai, give what input I have for you.
I've seen people that have retaining wall/foundation next to house use a coating to pervent what is called "efferesence".
I don't know what it's called off hand, maybe a paint/concrete supply.
From memory, I think there is plenty of light/sun, I wouldn't think you need the expense of solartubes.
Your siding was old aluminum, fairly resistant, I think you were planning stuco anyway?
But they also make a vulcanized(rubbery) paint that would protect, and you may consider pond area for that even after stuco, as stuco alone is permiable.
As for humidity, you may notice it a little bit, but wouldn't stop me(and I know won't stop you)
I'm not a pond expert, but will help w/ fasteners and such where I can.
I also have a pretty good book on Japanese style ponds you could borrow.

[malakaikingston]

I can come by, I am no expert or anything but I am willing to take a look and give you some ideas and tips from my experience. Great thing with concrete is it is really easy to fix with just more concrete. PM me with your work schedule, I probably can't come by this week but the week of the 5th I am pretty free.

I don't have any on site jobs scheduled for the next month or so.

Whenever you are free is good with me.

[malakaikingston]

Hey Kai, give what input I have for you.
I've seen people that have retaining wall/foundation next to house use a coating to pervent what is called "efferesence".
I don't know what it's called off hand, maybe a paint/concrete supply.
From memory, I think there is plenty of light/sun, I wouldn't think you need the expense of solartubes.
Your siding was old aluminum, fairly resistant, I think you were planning stuco anyway?
But they also make a vulcanized(rubbery) paint that would protect, and you may consider pond area for that even after stuco, as stuco alone is permiable.
As for humidity, you may notice it a little bit, but wouldn't stop me(and I know won't stop you)
I'm not a pond expert, but will help w/ fasteners and such where I can.
I also have a pretty good book on Japanese style ponds you could borrow.

Any advice is fully welcomed.

And I would love to borrow that book.

Can we hook up some time this week?

[davocean]

Think I'll be working at your neighbors soon, so most likely.

[malakaikingston]

Okay,

So some of you may know my pond is somewhat full of water already, problem is groundwater, now... I want to go ahead and crete it. What can I do about the water in the hole?

I can pump it out, but within 15 minutes the hole has some water in it, about 1/4 inch, within a few hours it will be up to the same level again.

Any advice?

And just for follow up, I am going to go with the screen, crete, cement, pond lock method.

My only ideas are, empty the hole of the water, add the required amount of water for the crete mix in the pond, mix it in the hole and real quick lay it out, then keep it moist and move on to doing the sides till I am above the waterline of the standing water, continue to finish the rest of the pond keeping it moist and moving up the sides.

Actually that is my only idea.