BK NW skimmers and Zeovit

[FishBulb]

Doesn't Pohl sell the venturi KZ skimmers? That's a pretty serious conflict of interest in conducting research.

[Fish n' Frags]

Doesn't Pohl sell the venturi KZ skimmers? That's a pretty serious conflict of interest in conducting research.

Or you could look at it like this, why would you sell a skimmer that doesn't maximize the potential of the ZEOvit method? i.e. the NW skimmer

[GoTakuF1]

Doesn't Pohl sell the venturi KZ skimmers? That's a pretty serious conflict of interest in conducting research.

That's my thinking as well.

Or you could look at it like this, why would you sell a skimmer that doesn't maximize the potential of the ZEOvit method? i.e. the NW skimmer

Until there's some concrete evidence stating otherwise, a skimmer is a skimmer to me. Again, I'm not trying to attack his method so ZEO users and ZEO supporters alike should embrace a little healthy skepticism.

[Fish n' Frags]

Somebody is getting me wrong here. I'm not defending either side. I'm simply trying to make sense of the problem GQJEFF had with his tank.

A.) He admittedly uses ZEOvit
B.) He had problems with tissue necrosis while using NW skimmer.
C.) ZEOvit guide states the use of Venturi is recommended and NW will strip essential elements from the water needed for system to work.
D.) He switches to a injection skimmer and problem goes away with no other change in his method.

Without knowing WHY exactly the NW skimmer is bad for the system, its documented that it shouldn't be used. Hence if i were to look at it from an outside perspective (which i am) i would say the problem was solved with his fix.

Now all i'm trying to find out is what elements get destroyed with the NW and how exactly they get destroyed in the NW pump versus the injection skimmers.

No offense taken here at all, trying to find the answer just like everyone else.

[darksilenttype]

Minh, i just thought that since the subject at hand was focused on ZEOvit users tanks then the above quote would apply. Simply stated that the creator of said method advise against the use of NW, and GQJEFF was doing the opposite. Looking for positive results from a method without following the directions of said method to a tee would have less than optimal results.

To answer your question, no, it does not go into detail about what "elements" they are referring to other than phytoplankton.

This method is always changing . I do believe that when I first started reading the guide it recommended heavy skimming and a wet skimmate Zeovit guide 1.0 I believe .

So when GQJEFF started, heavy skimmer and wet skimmate was recommended by the first guide .( I believe )

Like I said always changing as the method is improved on and these changes are added to the guide . They start a thread on the site when there is a change to how to run this method.

John

[Fish n' Frags]

Minh, this is the answer I was given to the question at hand.

"Hi Matt, Thomas Pohl noticed, in low nutrient waters, that K+ levels became lower than NSW when needle-wheel skimmers were used.[Just another in a long-line of remarkable discoveries] In theory, it's due to the EMF produced by the chopping NW mechanism, resulting in this deficit. What other elements or traces are removed thru wet-skimming, I do not know. I use a ER-NW skimmer, & wet-skim, but with RBS[currently 5-7%/wk. WC] I have not noted any lowering K+/KZ's Kalium testor. Bob"


Hope this helps!?!?

[GoTakuF1]

Thanks for relaying that info, Matt. I don't know much about EMF's effect on saltwater but perhaps someone else can chime in - I'll try to look into studies on the subject though. Interesting theory to say the least. I agree there's a definite negative aspect to using any extremely efficient skimmer in certain environment and the BK with RD pumps top that list for sure. I just wasn't aware that the RD pumps are creating EMFs and such Curiouser and curiouser!

[Fish n' Frags]

It may just be me but when i read through posts on ZEOvit.com it feels like zeo users are scientologists and Thomas Pohl is L. Ron Hubbard. Very cult like over there... Maybe some day if all goes well i can step up and be ZEOvit's Tom Cruise!! LOL

[GoTakuF1]

It may just be me but when i read through posts on ZEOvit.com it feels like zeo users are scientologists and Thomas Pohl is L. Ron Hubbard. Very cult like over there... Maybe some day if all goes well i can step up and be ZEOvit's Tom Cruise!! LOL

LOL, that's friggin' hillarious! The results for the ZEOvit system is nothing short of remarkable to say the least but the culture has been stand-offish to the rest of the reefing community (ever since the RC fiasco, which is why I prefer not to participate in either). I wish we all could learn and feed off eachother without being so guarded. After reviewing the Hiatt Method, I can draw some similarities to the ZEO system (don't hang me for saying that, please!)

[Fish n' Frags]

Hey, someone has to be the ambassador and spread the good word without coming off like an ass. I'll step up to the plate after i gain some knowledge and experience with the system. I have started since day 1 so as long as i keep my parameters in check with the methods suggestions and use proper dosing than everything i have as a result will be do to the ZEOvit method. I think then we will be able see whether its all its cracked up to be. Hey, i'm willing to give it a shot and see what happens. Worse comes to worse i can go back to the way i've always done it.

[darksilenttype]

It may just be me but when i read through posts on ZEOvit.com it feels like zeo users are scientologists and Thomas Pohl is L. Ron Hubbard. Very cult like over there... Maybe some day if all goes well i can step up and be ZEOvit's Tom Cruise!! LOL

You mean you havent recieved your POD in the mail yet ???? Know worrys it should be arriving shortly , just remember to place it beside your bed in a glass of tank water when you go to sleep . Everthing will be fine the next day trust me ..........LOL

John

[Fish n' Frags]

You mean you havent recieved your POD in the mail yet ???? Know worrys it should be arriving shortly , just remember to place it beside your bed in a glass of tank water when you go to sleep . Everthing will be fine the next day trust me ..........LOL

John

To funny, all i can think about when i discuss scientology is the South Park episode! LOL

[Bogg]

I asked mosocosm about this and he chooses to stay form these threads because there dead ends, but heres what he said in pm:

Regarding leaching of potential toxins from the Royal Exclusive needlewheels or mesh wheels which utilize a Hastelloy ... ain't happening. If Klaus is to be believed about his materials selection process (and I do), we're talking about a "superalloy" engineered to be resistant to corrosion is such friendly places as chemical and nuclear reaction vessels. They're not leaching anything ... ain't happening.

Regarding electrostatic precipitation ... after much skepticism about whether or not this could be happening with a marine aquarium toy, my review of the literature forces me to admit that such a thing is not only theoretically possible, but given the potential electrostatic behavior of a conducting metal rotating rapidly in a conductive ionic solution, it's likely to be happening ... but on a relatively small scale. I find the assertion that such a process would strip a multiple-100 gallon aquarium of elements to the point of SPS tissue necrosis to be unconvincing ... not impossible ... but rather improbable.

Folks might do well to remind themselves of the concept of parsimony when engaging in these topics. Speculating about the behavior of exotic alloys rotating rapidly in ionic solutions may be wldly entertaining, but while there are much simpler explanations on the table for discussion, I would respectfully submit that such speculation is premature. From my perspective, Mr. Borneman's speculations about "over-skimming" are well-taken.

Given that excessive bacterioplankton & POM export ... taken alone ... can explain what's being discussed in this thread, I see no reason to go hunting for exotic zebra hybrid mutants in a flock of flamingos.

Consider ... gqjeff's observations are (fundamentally) about epithelial and myoepithelial tissue dynamics in scleractinian corals. There's a term that encompasses all of his observations: osmoregulation. Given: (1) the ZEOvit system's utilization of bacterioplankton and POM as the means to influence scleratinian tissue osmoregulation, (2) bacterioplankton and POM demonstrate the capacity to meaningfully alter the concentration of elements, compounds, and aggregates that have been demonstratred to influence scleractinian osmoregulation in the water column, and (3) Bubble Kings have a well-established record of aggressively exporting bacterioplankton & POM from the water column ... well ... connect the dots for yourself. It's hardly surprising that the application of a "less aggressive" skimming device terminated the issue.

An assertion that one skimmer design is inherently superior to another, or that venturi injection is inherently superior to NW strikes me as non-sequitors ... it simply doesn't follow. The idea that a NW is capable of destroying either bacterioplankton or elements is ... forgive me, I mean no offense ... laughable.

Perhaps this one is useful ...

Skimmer Evolution
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9265

I'm going to see if I can get hahnz over here, he seems to think this whole theroy is bs also.

[GQJEFF]

Gotta love Gary....

[Fish n' Frags]

Great stuff there, Minhs going to love the scientific mumbo jumbo in that one. So it seems to me that the BK was just TO MUCH SKIMMER!! Nice to know.