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    Thread: SPS Help - ICP Results In

    1. #1
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      SPS Help - ICP Results In

      Good afternoon,

      I have been waiting for my Triton-ICP results to get in before I asked for some help on better SPS results.

      Problem: I have had less than mediocre results with my attempts at SPS. I have thriving simple ones (2 types of birdsnest, Purple Stylo, Bonsai), but I have lost quite a few SPS (2 PC Rainbow, Strawberry Shortcake, Hawkins Enchinata...to name a few). Terrible luck with montis (2 currently "alive", grinch and asd phoenix). The current SPS that I am working on are Blue Flame Acro (encrusted, wooly polyp extention, but brown with lime/green tips, 3 months in), Superman Millepora (just started to encrust, but basically brown with week old blue encrusting - a good sign, 3 months in), 2 ??Red Planet?? (1 recent and reacting well and encrusting, 1 old with little growth but good polyp extention). I am not necessarily looking for suggestions per type of SPS, but jut general suggustions given below info. Ill include a photo of the Blue Flame since it's growing, but not coloring up and is representative of my problem.


      My tank: is not so new anymore (10 months). 90 gallon with 25 gallon sump (skimmer/fuge (chaeto)/return). I have 2 Radion G2 XR30 Pros and I run basically the AB+ program. I recently jacked up the flow to have Maxspect 150, 1 small Tunze and 1 beast of a Tunze 6105 which I control an Apex with pretty good, chaotic flow. I use Scripps and I dose Kalkwasser (1950 ml a day and Magnesium (was dosing 25 ml/day...see below) via dosing pump. Initially I was using vinegar in my Kalkwasser, but I stopped that about 3 weeks ago. I do 30 % water changes every 3 weeks. ICP test was done at the end of the 3 weeks. My tank has about 40 % of it's rocks from man made rock using osyter shells, aragonite and portland white cement.

      Algae: I don't think I have an algae problem. Had hair algae for a week intially, overcoming a cyano bloom due probably do the large amounts of vinegar I was dosing with the kalk. I have to clean my glass every 2 to 3 days to keep it super clear. I green algae on my rock, but it's not growing and I always assumed was just "normal". I have received frags from beautiful systems that have more algae than that.

      Parameters as per ICP when applicable
      ** Salt - 1.0245 (scripps)
      ** Alk - 8.3 (fairly stable...a few drops to 7.5, but rarely above 8.3)
      ** Calcium - 440 as per ICP (425 on my salifert on same day)
      ** Magnesium - 1799 (off the charts) I know I had been reading the test wrong...but not that far off. Will fix that.
      ** Phosphate - .04 on ICP (same on Hanna)
      ** Nitrate - 2 ppm (today was 5 ppm)
      ** pH 7.75 to 8.1

      ICP results that were off/bad
      ** TIN - odd, but it was in the ICP yellow, warning level. My fan is rusty, so that may be the source.
      ** Potassium - 384/ml ICP says that it is slighly low. Ive tested it and says 380 usually.
      ** Iodine - 10 ug/l - ICP says that it is low
      ** Bromine - 52 g/ml - ICP said it was slightly low.

      It may be hard to do SPS with Radion G2. I'd rather not invest in T5/LED hybrid, but that is probably the next step.

      For those of you that are SPS experts, anything stand out? Any other simple/small adjustments I might want to try?
      Last edited by HHN; 01-06-2019 at 04:26 PM.

    2. #2
      cboltsd's Avatar
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      Is that salinity reading a typo?

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    3. #3
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      Your reading look pretty good. The mag obviously is super high. Have you measured the par readings you are getting?

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    4. #4
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      yes...fixed that...1.0245... and no, I have not yet done that. I should probably break down and invest in that. I run the Radions at 67 % at the peak and its a 24 inch tank. I don't think the PAR is too low.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by HHN View Post
      yes...fixed that...1.0245... and no, I have not yet done that. I should probably break down and invest in that. I run the Radions at 67 % at the peak and its a 24 inch tank. I don't think the PAR is too low.
      You can also rent a PAR meter on BRS if you cant get one locally. This may be why the corals are browning. I would start there, because your levels look pretty good otherwise with exception to the mag.

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    6. #6
      brandon0350 is offline Registered User
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      With my Radion at 50% I'm getting 340 par at the top of my rock on a 20" deep tank. I would highly recommend measuring your par. I have a 510 available to come and test or you can rent it. Send me a pm if interested

    7. #7
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by brandon0350 View Post
      With my Radion at 50% I'm getting 340 par at the top of my rock on a 20" deep tank. I would highly recommend measuring your par. I have a 510 available to come and test or you can rent it. Send me a pm if interested
      I will take you up on that for sure. Do you ever come down the 15/56 area? or Delmar to Encinitas? Otherwise, Ill have to figure out how to get up there.

    8. #8
      d-man is offline Registered User
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      Tin is normal in our reef tanks. There is a thread on it on another site discussing that there is no issues with that.

    9. #9
      LotsaFishies is offline Registered User
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      The thing I notice the most is the PH. 7.75-8.1 is too low. Should be in the 8.3-8.4 range. You alk is slightly low, but within acceptable range. Raising alk would help stabilize your ph a bit.

    10. #10
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by LotsaFishies View Post
      The thing I notice the most is the PH. 7.75-8.1 is too low. Should be in the 8.3-8.4 range. You alk is slightly low, but within acceptable range. Raising alk would help stabilize your ph a bit.
      I have been back and forth for months about that. I stopped dosing Kalk dilutedin vinegar, so that should help. My rock should have contributed more to pH. Scripps water is about 7.9/8.0, so a bit limited by that. Can really run fresh air. I may add another higher pH rock to sump. I also think getting my magnesium inline is gong to have a good effect. My chaeto doesnt really grow and I think that will improve and reduce ph loss at night.
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      Last edited by HHN; 01-07-2019 at 09:27 AM.

    11. #11
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      SPS Help - ICP Results In

      IMO, if you have algae on your rocks you have too much nitrates/phosphates. I know people will say your numbers are fine, but a lot of those people are have great success with 2-5ppm nitrates because their tanks are already chock full of huge coral colonies that continually use and deplete those nutrients. I’ve actually done an experiment on this with my tank.

      I have mostly small colonies if various sps: stylos, pocillopora, a few acros, montis, a mille etc. Not much bigger than golfball-sized colonies aside from the encrusting montis. I tried bumping my nitrates to 5ppm and got a sheet of fuzzy algae on my back glass as my reward. Phosphates were undetectable with a salifert test (probably still there). My coral growth also stopped completely. That was the inhibiting factor of having too much algal growth, specifically with the coral’s zooxanthellae. I reduced my nitrates down to undetectable on my salifert test and I’ve not only had really good growth, I’ve had better coloration too. I think it’s because I basically fed the zooxanthellae less which allowed the coral to live more, if that makes sense. I honestly think people are chasing numbers from really successful tanks only to be disappointed because that combination of parameters only works once you already have that level of success. Many of us aspire to have tanks like Julian Sprung’s but miss the small text under those pictures that states “Your success with these water parameters may (will) vary”. Where i’m getting at here is, many of us expect we need to keep our nitrates at (X) for (Y) to happen when in reality we’ll do a lot better at a much lower nitrate number than we expect, will have no nuisance algae in our displays and can GRADUALLY increase those nutrient levels as our corals grow and fill our tanks. Consider this: I believe natural seawater nitrates are around .2ppm. So I think it’s less of a question of nutrient availability and more of what the actual consumption rate of it is and just like in the ocean, how gradually those trace nutrients are carried through the current. If you really think about it, if you were to pump fresh scripps water continuously through your tank, even with its low nitrate level, odds are your corals would do great. This makes sense considering this rule also applies to alkalinity and calcium levels that can also be lower than expected and still provide great results. Corals just need a useful amount available to them and too much of those resources can cause issues.

      As for your parameters..

      I’ll bet the average ph of many people who run a calcium reactor is 7.8-8. Their coral health is fine.

      Corals can grow well at a dkh of 7, provided the nutrient levels in the tank are extremely low. That being said, I think most of us shoot for 8.1-8.3 because most of us who have success at this number, which varies depending on tank stocking probably have a nitrate level of .5-3ppm

      For specific gravity, I personally have never noticed a difference between 1.024 and 1.026.

      Your mag is high, but unless it’s causing some sort of precipitation issue, then it’s really not going to cause a problem and will most likely quickly drop once the true limiting factor to your coral growth is addressed.

      IMO, a 30% water change is too much at once and can be enough of a spike in water parameters to tick coral off for weeks. Remember: stability is king. If you’re going to do water changes, do smaller ones much more frequently.

      Your lighting sounds good, although I would run them at a lower intensity for a while and monitor the color of your coral.

      Your volume of flow is good. Just make sure it’s indirect flow as blasting corals from one side, even every few seconds can be a bad thing. I ran dual gyre xf250’s on my 100g and mounted them vertically in the back corners because they were blasting my corals when mounted horizontally and everything just seemed happier having the random undertow sweeping around them vs. the direct current.

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      Last edited by crustaceon; 01-07-2019 at 10:02 AM.

    12. #12
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      Great feedback...much appreciated. Ill take some photos of rocks if you don't mind commenting on that. I have been told I probably overfeed. Mag is one I will fix fairly quickly and ill start doing 2 week water changes.

    13. #13
      HHN is offline Registered User
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      Is that an algae problem?


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      Last edited by HHN; 01-07-2019 at 01:58 PM.

    14. #14
      crustaceon is offline Registered User
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      It looks abnormal to me. Even when I have crazy coralline growth on my glass which starts as green spots, it never forms on rocks which are already encrusted in coralline. If another type of algae is outcompeting your coralline, I would say that’s a pretty good sign you have too much nutrients in your tank.


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    15. #15
      Livinlocal is offline Registered User
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      After reading your post, there are a couple things that come to my mind.

      First would be stability. How stable are your parameters? You mentioned your alkalinity drops, but how often does it fluctuate? Is that a daily fluctuation between dosing? What temperature do you keep your tank at? does it hold that temperature throughout 24 hours, or does the temperature fluctuate up and down?

      Second would be your water source. What are you using for top off water? Do you have a RODI filtration set up, or do you buy your water? Do you know the PPM of your top off water? Sometimes with RODI you can get contaminants going through the filter when the media gets exhausted, most commonly which is chloramines. This is something that could go undetected and cause lots of issues that a lot of people overlook.


      Third would be your light schedule, and how many hours you are running your lights, along with the sunlight that is hitting your tank. It is recommended that you do not have natural sunlight shining through your windows into your display, But I wouldn’t say that’s the definite culprit, but I would cover your window or whatever it takes to keep the sunlight off your display.

      Lastly would be the extreme magnesium. With too high or too low of magnesium, it stunts the corals uptake of cal/mag. After dosing all of that magnesium, have you noticed that you have not had to dose as much calcium and alkalinity?

      And again, stability is king. I would work on any type of fluctuations, and getting them settled in.

      Regarding nutrients, each persons system is going to use the nutrients differently. It has been proven SPS need nutrients in our closed loop system, and the correlation between our closed loop system and the open ocean, do not collaborate together when it comes to nutrient levels. This isn’t 100% understood why, but You can read articles by Randy Holmes about this.

      With that being said, I keep my nitrates at about 30-40ppm on purpose, and I dose nitrates to keep it at this level, but I keep the number stable. This is where I find the most vivid colors coming out of my sps.
      Last edited by Livinlocal; 01-07-2019 at 02:27 PM.

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