Perfect water a bad idea?

[teamlounge]

So I had some random deterioration on a few SPS colonies. Tried all the usual steps to alleviate any problems including interceptor treatments. Still some colonies growing really well...some just not looking very good.

Water is perfect...has been stable for a long time. 240 gallon tank with quality components. Skimmer, fuge, miracle mud, UV, etc. Calc 420, Ak 8.2, Mag 1300. 0 nit and pho. The only small fluctuations over the last year has been in the mag lvl. Tank is moderately SPS heavy with a large Clam. Been drinking more and more mag...but again it's been stable for months.

Long post but stay with me because I would love some input from experienced reefers. I been doing some research. Just read a great write up from BattleCorals on R2R directly relating to this problem. The argument is that perfect water isn't necessarily a good thing, especially with SPS heavy tanks. In fact, it is likely bad for your corals. Having some trace elements for SPS is what they live and feed on naturally.

So my question is does anybody have any experience with this? Have those with SPS heavy tanks had similar problems? The article goes on to suggest that increasing the so called "bad" elements is actually good...and your SPS will act as the natural filter. Not many answers or statistics given...but the argument makes very good sense. The fact that technology today is far better than it was 10, 20 and 30 years ago. The old school philosophy has been overcome by new school products that do a far more efficient job of removing...well everything.

Before I go completely off the deep end and drop tap water in my tank (ok jk)...I thought I would pose the question? thx much.

[sushi]

What is your water source now? Scripps or mix? If you're mixing, I'd suggest trying scripps it has more trace elements and there was recently a thread here about mix vs. NSW (natural sea water) and some comparisons and by far all the NSW tanks flourished and fared better than the salt mixers. Just a thought.

[crabbysd]

Yup zeros I believe come from hobbyists, not the actual research. No and Po are for some reason bad, but No and Po are actually the food.

On r2r most like to Quote randy but ignore this.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

[brandon0350]

Stay away from undetectable nutrients. Equipment is now so efficient it's easy to starve acropora. Shoot for 3-5ppm n03 and .02ppm po4. If you use Scripps water it already has trace no3 & po4

[Tapio]

So I had some random deterioration on a few SPS colonies. Tried all the usual steps to alleviate any problems including interceptor treatments. Still some colonies growing really well...some just not looking very good.

Water is perfect...has been stable for a long time. 240 gallon tank with quality components. Skimmer, fuge, miracle mud, UV, etc. Calc 420, Ak 8.2, Mag 1300. 0 nit and pho. The only small fluctuations over the last year has been in the mag lvl. Tank is moderately SPS heavy with a large Clam. Been drinking more and more mag...but again it's been stable for months.

Long post but stay with me because I would love some input from experienced reefers. I been doing some research. Just read a great write up from BattleCorals on R2R directly relating to this problem. The argument is that perfect water isn't necessarily a good thing, especially with SPS heavy tanks. In fact, it is likely bad for your corals. Having some trace elements for SPS is what they live and feed on naturally.

So my question is does anybody have any experience with this? Have those with SPS heavy tanks had similar problems? The article goes on to suggest that increasing the so called "bad" elements is actually good...and your SPS will act as the natural filter. Not many answers or statistics given...but the argument makes very good sense. The fact that technology today is far better than it was 10, 20 and 30 years ago. The old school philosophy has been overcome by new school products that do a far more efficient job of removing...well everything.

Before I go completely off the deep end and drop tap water in my tank (ok jk)...I thought I would pose the question? thx much.

Typical horrible internet advice. SPS does not "feed" on trace elements, they are just there in NSW and the coral takes them up like we take up certain minerals from food. Some are necessary most are not. SPS are carnivores and feed on zooplankton. But they get most of their energy from symbiotic zooxanthellae, 90% or more likely in captivity. It is true that in captivity they can substitute lack of zooplankton with phosphate and nitrate which are always higher in reef aquaria than on the reef. Therefore some P and N is good and there is no reason to increase these intentionally. With every feeding of fish there is a huge amount of phosphate added to the water. Even modern equipment is not going to remove everything from the water at least unless there are no fish in the tank and no feeding going on.

Strive for normal NSW levels and keep alkalinity stable between 7-9, Ca 420, Mg 1200-1400. Temp is not critical and can vary even daily 5 degrees by day night cycle. 75-85 is all good depending on season. For me 76 min in winter and 84 max in summer.

Also use a good salt mix like Instant Ocean and make sure your RO-DI is working properly, 1.026. I have not used Scripps and would not use it. Many people use it without problems.

[sushi]

Typical horrible internet advice. SPS does not "feed" on trace elements, they are just there in NSW and the coral takes them up like we take up certain minerals from food. Some are necessary most are not. SPS are carnivores and feed on zooplankton. But they get most of their energy from symbiotic zooxanthellae, 90% or more likely in captivity. It is true that in captivity they can substitute lack of zooplankton with phosphate and nitrate which are always higher in reef aquaria than on the reef. Therefore some P and N is good and there is no reason to increase these intentionally. With every feeding of fish there is a huge amount of phosphate added to the water. Even modern equipment is not going to remove everything from the water at least unless there are no fish in the tank and no feeding going on.

Strive for normal NSW levels and keep alkalinity stable between 7-9, Ca 420, Mg 1200-1400. Temp is not critical and can vary even daily 5 degrees by day night cycle. 75-85 is all good depending on season. For me 76 min in winter and 84 max in summer.

Also use a good salt mix like Instant Ocean and make sure your RO-DI is working properly, 1.026. I have not used Scripps and would not use it. Many people use it without problems.

Dang, why wouldn't you use scripps?? I am just curious are you worried about possible pollution or contaminants?

[FreshSaltH2o]

Dang, why wouldn't you use scripps?? I am just curious are you worried about possible pollution or contaminants?

Scripps contains contaminants ive got weird stuff pop up from nowhere all the time.

[Tapio]

Dang, why wouldn't you use scripps?? I am just curious are you worried about possible pollution or contaminants?

Yes. It is our coastal contaminated water and most of the time it is fine. Typically during winter rains it becomes nutrient loaded and likely full of contaminants of all sorts. At times there are algae blooms in the warm summer months which I can't imagine do no good.
I feel I have total control of what I do if I mix my own. Besides then I don't have to carry 50 gal per water change.
Just pointing out that many people use it just and that's good. It's a choice.


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[sushi]

Yes. It is our coastal contaminated water and most of the time it is fine. Typically during winter rains it becomes nutrient loaded and likely full of contaminants of all sorts. At times there are algae blooms in the warm summer months which I can't imagine do no good.
I feel I have total control of what I do if I mix my own. Besides then I don't have to carry 50 gal per water change.
Just pointing out that many people use it just and that's good. It's a choice.


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Yeah it makes sense. Especially the part about hauling 50 gallons around for a water change. That would get old quickly!

[Bogg]

High import and export is Key ime

[teamlounge]

Appreciate all the comments. Scripps is out for me as I am paranoid about what goes in my tank. Certainly understand why people use it...But with 300 gallons and larger water changes...I have always been worried about possible pests and contaminants. I could have mis quoted the article about SPS "feeding". The impression was having some level P and N is good for SPS and modern equipment has done an excellent job of removing.

I am well within the parameters for water quality...so have been very curious as to why one or two of the SPS in my tank deteriorate...while the majority thrive.

[Tapio]

I am well within the parameters for water quality...so have been very curious as to why one or two of the SPS in my tank deteriorate...while the majority thrive.

Sometimes individual pieces die. Weak or sick or unable to adjust to captivity. Like fish.

[Kris]

"Perfect water," is a grand ideal, but what that is comprised of in a tank probably depends on the coral(s) that are in the tank.

Some corals might be thriving while others are dying. Why?, is usually a mystery. IF we keep working on our tanks, eventually we may figure a lot more of these things out, why some are cool with Scripps, and others only mix, are two examples from a multivariate problem that reefers are still figuring out.

Not too long ago people were really very happy having a tank with a thriving gsp colony growing on the back wall,.....

[russ13]

Many things way into this discussion. I wonder how accurate home test kits are? Is the water we think of as perfect really that clean? I kept my last tank pretty simple. Bio media(siporax), GFO, carbon, fuge, a skimmer and weekly water changes. Far from perfect but I was very happy with the results


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[Tapio]

Many things way into this discussion. I wonder how accurate home test kits are? Is the water we think of as perfect really that clean? I kept my last tank pretty simple. Bio media(siporax), GFO, carbon, fuge, a skimmer and weekly water changes. Far from perfect but I was very happy with the results


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Some test kits are better than others. Often the color changes are hard to read. To validate test kits, test the same sample of water with kits and send the other half to Triton for analysis. Also test new salt water mix and compare it to aged tank water. The Triton test is 50 bucks and well worth it in my opinion.