New Tank Glass or Acrylic

[Dakota]

well, my only concern with glass is that when it is scratched, replacing a panel is a HUGE pain if you have a stocked tank... you can't buff, fix glass underwater. Granted, glass is pretty hard to scratch, but my 29 gal prop tank has scratches all over the front panel. And yes, you can re-seal a glass tank when the silicone starts to go. I just feel that acrylic is better since it never needs re-sealing. And drilling acrylicis easier... plus tempered glass is undrillable.

On a side note, I was at OG, when a guy came in to order a 300gal tank because his acrylic tank at home ruptured when he smacked his cleaning magnet on the front left side of the tank (a 300 gal).. so acrylic bonds can break if not done properly. And yes, if you leave an acrylic tank out in the sun for a while, it will dis-color. I just don't see anyone actually keeping a reef tank outside is all.

BUT.... in the end.... it's a ford/dodge thing. . . I just prefer the benefits and easy of use as acrylic.

[lucubrator]

well, my only concern with glass is that when it is scratched, replacing a panel is a HUGE pain if you have a stocked tank... you can't buff, fix glass underwater. Granted, glass is pretty hard to scratch, but my 29 gal prop tank has scratches all over the front panel. And yes, you can re-seal a glass tank when the silicone starts to go. I just feel that acrylic is better since it never needs re-sealing. And drilling acrylicis easier... plus tempered glass is undrillable.

Few tanks have tempered glass anywhere but on the bottom, and if you want the bottom drilled, then you've probably done that before it's filled with water and becomes an issue. As for resealing, what percentage people actually have a tank up continuously for more than 2 years? 5? 10?

Mike, you're not a lawyer are you ?

Sounds more like a scientist than a lawyer. In the last big trial I saw the defense lawyer tried to get people to believe that DNA wasn't proof.

It's rather like saying that automobile accidents involving Saabs in the US are far fewer than Volvos, so Saabs must be safer.

Yay Saab!


Flip a coin, you'll live longer.

[dhuynh]

Here's some good points about glass vs. acrylic:

http://www.fishfriend.com/articles/a...ass_tanks.html

Regarding the safety issue, we're only concern about the safety issues as it relate to glass vs. acrylic. Both will have issues related to livestock w/ electricity, etc...

The fact that glass will shatter when impacted with a sharp object just plain scares me. I had the center brace on my tank break into two pieces and one dropped into the tank, slicing my monti cap in half and knocking over a 15lbs piece of LR! When you're standing in front of 500 gallons of water, do you want glass or acrylic protecting you? I've reinforced my tank since then w/ two additional brace, but I still get that eerie feeling sometimes when I'm in front of my tank.

Like I said before, for LARGE tanks, I would definitely go with acrylic. For smaller tanks, I would definitely do glass. If I had small kids around, I would do acrylic. A little scratch won't be noticed if you have nice fish and corals.

[Mike N]

*** when it is scratched, replacing a panel is a HUGE pain if you have a stocked tank... you can't buff, fix glass underwater.
*** plus tempered glass is undrillable.
*** And yes, if you leave an acrylic tank out in the sun for a while, it will dis-color.

1. galss can be buffed out just as acrylic can.
2. Tempered galss can be drilled, but it takes more equipment than the hole saw you buy from Home Depot.
3. Reef lighting gives off more U/V than you'd get from the sun, so were not talking about keeping tanks outside.

[Dakota]

1. galss can be buffed out just as acrylic can.
2. Tempered galss can be drilled, but it takes more equipment than the hole saw you buy from Home Depot.
3. Reef lighting gives off more U/V than you'd get from the sun, so were not talking about keeping tanks outside.

okay.. I'm not trying to argue here (well maybe I am), but I have to say this.

1. glas can be buffed underwater? I did not know that, but I seems to me it'd be harder/more expensive. Show me otherwise and I'll happily concede
2. how? I'm curious.
3. My light has a UV shield on it, and I've seen a lot of old acrylic tanks (my 40gal was an old tank) that look fine. I know lower grade acrylic goes crazy, but I though the high grade stuff stayed nice and clear.

[pitfish]

okay.. I'm not trying to argue here (well maybe I am), but I have to say this.

1. glas can be buffed underwater? I did not know that, but I seems to me it'd be harder/more expensive. Show me otherwise and I'll happily concede
2. how? I'm curious.
3. My light has a UV shield on it, and I've seen a lot of old acrylic tanks (my 40gal was an old tank) that look fine. I know lower grade acrylic goes crazy, but I though the high grade stuff stayed nice and clear.

http://www.fitchfamily.com/glass.html

It looks like it took quite an effort, but this link shows it's possible to remove scratches from glass even if there's water in the tank.

Glass and acrylic each has it's disadvantages/advantages. It's like comparing apples to oranges. If you have kids around it's only a matter of time before the acrylic is scratched. If that kid decides to bang on the tank with silverware, or roll across it with a matchbox car its gonna be scratched.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/aquariumweights.html

On the other hand if your kid decides to lift weights near the aquarium, and it's made of glass, there's a danger of it being shattered whereas it would just bounce (i think) off of acrylic.

[Mike N]

Expensive, but it can be done with the water in the tank.

http://www.seavisions.com/_beta/store/magnets.htm

Empty is much easier

Removing Scraches From Your Glass Aquarium
by John T. Fitch
http://www.bostonaquariumsociety.org.../scratches.htm

*edit* man I'm slow....

[socalcreations]

Ok, going to chime in here about this issue. I do agree that it is a personal preference on which is "better", the only thing that got to me is the quote about an acrylic tank getting old and having a "shelf" life. I'm sure this is based on looking at 20 year old aquariums, as back then the acrylic is no where near the quality of today. The acrylic of today is much better in the UV sense and will outlast any of those old tanks. Also what *most* people see in acrylic tanks are very poor quality tanks, such as clear-for-life or Tru-Vu tanks, which in reality are really poorly built tanks. They use the cheapest domest acrylic, and the thinest acrylic that will hold water. This leads to extreme bowing of panels, along with crazing in the joints. Sure they hold water, but they end up looking terrible in a couple of years due to the quality of them. A quality acrylic aquarium will be built from the *correct* thickness and material. IMHO, a quality acrylic aquarium will last forever, and if taken care of, always look better than a glass tank. The only glass tank I would ever consider is a Lee-Mar, as they build one hell of a glass tank.HTH!

[Mike N]

Hey SoCal,
Glad to have a professional get into the discussion. I’m not surprised to see your supporting your product line, and I know you make some really nice stuff. Maybe I can talk you into a discount for the non-believer, I'd like to see if the new acrylic will stand the test of time.

"the only thing that got to me is the quote about an acrylic tank getting old and having a "shelf" life."

Re-read the whole thread twice, still can find any quote about having a shelf life? I did say they "tend to discolor".

"I'm sure this is based on looking at 20 year old aquariums, as back then the acrylic is no where near the quality of today"

True, how does one form an opinion about how acrylic stands up as it get older based upon new aquariums? I have not seen any new acrylic aquariums that have stood the test of time against discoloration, so I only have my experience to base my opinions upon. It would be pretty hard to see a modern acrylic tank that’s 20 years old?

Even high-end acrylic manufactures like ATM (www.acrylicaquariums.com) have a 20 year warrantee against discoloration (they have some really cool aquariums, I like the corner wall unit with the jellyfish).

"Also what *most* people see in acrylic tanks are very poor quality tanks, such as clear-for-life or Tru-Vu tanks, which in reality are really poorly built tanks. They use the cheapest domest(ic) acrylic, and the thin(n)est acrylic that will hold water. This leads to extreme bowing of panels, along with crazing in the joints. Sure they hold water, but they end up looking terrible in a couple of years due to the quality of them."

My point exactly...

"IMHO, a quality acrylic aquarium will last forever, and if taken care of, always look better than a glass tank."

So why then do you not offer a limited lifetime warrantee on your acrylic aquariums, and why do you specifically exclude “crazing” from your warrantee? Not trying to bash you, but as a professional acrylic manufacturer your own product warrantee doesn’t seem to support your statement that acrylic can last forever if taken care of.

I think we can all agree that each has it benefits and downsides, you say acrylic. I say glass…

Cowboys, man I hate the Cowboys

I’m out, this horse is dead.

[scott058]

Thanks guys I will keep all that in mind

[Dakota]

So why then do you not offer a limited lifetime warrantee on your acrylic aquariums, and why do you specifically exclude “crazing” from your warrantee? Not trying to bash you, but as a professional acrylic manufacturer your own product warrantee doesn’t seem to support your statement that acrylic can last forever if taken care of.

I’m out, this horse is dead.

Becuase "If properly taken care of" means just that, and any implied warranty can't account for neglegence on peoples behalf. At least that's how I see it.

[socalcreations]

Well, as far as the implied "shelf life", dicoloration is what I was infering to. Even IF the acrylic discolors after over 20 years, glass has discoloration right off the bat. Just because someone might offer a 20 year warranty against discoloration, that doesn't mean that it will discolor after that 20 years! It's just garraunteed not to for 20 years.

I agree that it's hard to judge the new acrylic tanks versus older, just wanted to point out that they are different. Obviously you can't see a 20 year old new acrylic tank!

You're point exactly, was my point. Clear-for-life and tru-vu only care about selling tanks that hold water, not the quality of them. You can find the same counter company in glass, with companies like glasscages! They don't care about quality, just quantity. Other acrylic and glass manufacturers are different, take us, SoCal Creations, Envision Acrylics, and I would even venture to say ATM (even though I'm not fond of them, other reasons) for acrylic, and for glass, Lee-Mar, Aquarium Obsessed, and Miracles are some of the high end manufacturers who care about quality.

As far as our warranty, we are fairly new to the acrylic manufacturing business, and so is the reason for our 6 year warranty. We are not in the position to offer a lifetime warranty at this point. Again, the warranty doesn't mean that the tank won't last forever. If fact we have two of our own built tanks in my house at the moment, and I can say with 100% certainty that they will last forever. Just as a business, we can't take that stand point at this time.

As far as the crazing, in our warranty it states " scratches and crazing caused by use of cleaning materials other that strictly for acrylic". Small amounts of crazing can occur in just about any tank, we build our tanks to hav the minimal amount of bow, which hopefully will lead to no crazing. While this is a sign of stress in seams, it also can be occured by the use of chemicals used for cleaning that shouldn't be, such as alcohol base products. We can not cover this strictly based on that fact, if we have a customer take rubbing or some other type of alcohol to a tank and then come running to us saying that their tank is crazing and we covered this, we would more than likely have to build another tank, you think we want to cover other peoples mistakes, would you?

Don't want to get onto a war of words here, just trying to back up my statements. Like I stated in my previous post, and what you also stated in your's, it comes down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE, I also stated that you couldn't go wrong with a Lee-Mar tank, as they are very nice glass tanks. Like you said, they both have benefits and downsides.

[pitfish]

As far as the crazing, in our warranty it states " scratches and crazing caused by use of cleaning materials other that strictly for acrylic". Small amounts of crazing can occur in just about any tank, we build our tanks to hav the minimal amount of bow, which hopefully will lead to no crazing. While this is a sign of stress in seams, it also can be occured by the use of chemicals used for cleaning that shouldn't be, such as alcohol base products. We can not cover this strictly based on that fact, if we have a customer take rubbing or some other type of alcohol to a tank and then come running to us saying that their tank is crazing and we covered this, we would more than likely have to build another tank, you think we want to cover other peoples mistakes, would you?

I thought it was kind of interesting that you mentioned this. As I myself have been doing some reading on whether to try acrylic or not, I came across a passage in The Reef Aquarium Vol. 3 by Julian Sprung & Charles Delbeek, page 59, that says,

" Never, ever use any solvents such as acetone on or near an acrylic surface. This will cause the acrylic to cloud or craze, and can severely damage bonded surfaces. We have seen clear bonds turn milky white within a few minutes of exposure to the fumes of chemical solvents used a short distance away from a tank. Rubbing alcohol is, however, safe and can be used to remove residues left behind from protective coverings."

I know I could use alcohol or even windex on a glass aquarium, but up until I read what you wrote I also thought it would work on acrylic. I just imagine a customer who also read this running to you with this pretty respected series, thinking,
"Hey, if J. Sprung said it was ok, surely it would be fine to use on my advanced acrylic, because that's why I sprung the cash for the better tank rather than going for a tru-vu/cheaper alternative acrylic."

I'm really not trying to kick an already dead horse, but is Vol 3 wrong in saying it's safe to use alcohol, are you mistaken, or am I just misunderstanding.

Anyway, sorry for the long post

[socalcreations]

You know what, I'm not really sure on the rubbing alcohol, I'll be honest. Just couldn't remember the other types of solvents that shouldn't be used. We use a bit of denatured alcohol on cleaning up some residue on tanks, and that is ok to lightly use, just don't want to soak it in it. I do know that you shouldn't use windex on acrylic, and acetone is definatley a no-no also. I would have to check with my acrylic guy to find out what else is a no-no. Sorry to mislead you on the rubbing alcohol, just couldn't think of another type off the top of my head.

... Not sure why luistwentyone has an objection to this thread, as it is discussing an issue without hopefully affending anyone. If you don't like this thread, don't read it. Seems simple enough to me.

[pk-sd]

You know what, I'm not really sure on the rubbing alcohol, I'll be honest. Just couldn't remember the other types of solvents that shouldn't be used. We use a bit of denatured alcohol on cleaning up some residue on tanks, and that is ok to lightly use, just don't want to soak it in it. I do know that you shouldn't use windex on acrylic, and acetone is definatley a no-no also. I would have to check with my acrylic guy to find out what else is a no-no. Sorry to mislead you on the rubbing alcohol, just couldn't think of another type off the top of my head.

... Not sure why luistwentyone has an objection to this thread, as it is discussing an issue without hopefully affending anyone. If you don't like this thread, don't read it. Seems simple enough to me.

Can you please also find out about using vinegar ?