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    Thread: Max 2017!

    1. #31
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by sushi View Post
      That definitely makes sense. If the manufacturers gave big discounts no one would buy from the distributors anymore. They would just wait for MAX like people wait for cyber Monday

      Distributors like Marine Depot and BRS could give discounts without much harm, but I am pretty new to the hobby and have no idea if many retailers go to these shows. As for wants and needs, in my fantasy world it would be cool to see manufacturers showcasing new products and retailers there with nice sales. That's surely difficult to orchestrate if not impossible, but I do think that'd get people excited.
      We do get some retailers, however it is tough sell to many store owners who have few employees and thus can't man a booth for an entire weekend. They generally do not want to close their stores during the show because the weekends are their bread and butter, and even worse some even consider these shows as competition instead of a positive opportunity. The irony is that the few retailers who do exhibit do extremely well in sales and some even get a boat load of free stuff at the end of the show from manufacturers who don't want to truck their stuff back across the country. I would love to get more stores involved because of sales at our show help the show, our promotions help their store, and the hobby community get to see/buy their stuff....its win-win! Not as easy as it sounds though trying to convince an owner that MAX is in his/her best interests., until they try it, .

    2. #32
      moon doggy1 is offline Registered User
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      I like to second sushi I am a equipment junkie and want to see and touch all of the things that are never at stores, I rather buy my corals local, better success. PS I have been to your show for many years, and big guys want lots of attendance, so maybe make the entrance price 10 dollars and make it cheap for the wife and kids to get in as well. My 2 cents.

    3. #33
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by moon doggy1 View Post
      I like to second sushi I am a equipment junkie and want to see and touch all of the things that are never at stores, I rather buy my corals local, better success. PS I have been to your show for many years, and big guys want lots of attendance, so maybe make the entrance price 10 dollars and make it cheap for the wife and kids to get in as well. My 2 cents.
      Hi Moon doggy,
      The irony is that I had a few business people years ago suggest that the entrance price of MAX should be significantly MORE; stating that a $15 entrance charge somehow cheapens the show. I didn't agree with them then and I don't agree with them now. You will happy to know we are seriously considering a $10 entrance fee for the next MAX show as part of our new reform/changes. I am also attempting to move our show to the Huntington Beach building (not confirmed yet) so as to be closer to the swap meet and hence people can take advantage of free parking on that side of the fair grounds. (this saves another $8 per car)

      I always refused to charge even a dime for children (kids 12 and under have always been FREE) I should also point out that everything you've ever seen having to do with the kids (Touch Tank, Float-Your-Boat, HD Theater, Contests, Prizes, etc.) have always come straight our own pocket. Given that none of these things are revenue producing activities, I think you can imagine how the charges add up and up and up. The float-your-boat contest in 2015 cost me over $5gs alone to build (I took it all on myself both physically and financially, building this 10-foot long racing pool literally one week prior to the show)).....in 2016 we tried to find a sponsor to at least cover the costs of materials and prizes, but unfortunately nobody came through, so we had to cancel it altogether. I simply couldn't afford to throw away another $2gs, even after the enduring the sunk costs from the previous year. (It killed me then to make that decision and I regretted it even more later after seeing kids showing up at MAX expecting to sign up for Float-Your-Boat) Perhaps if more word got out about it some business would be willing to help. Its always an ROI thing for business people to consider.

      I bring this up so as to give people a very small snapshot of what goes on behind the scenes and this is constitutes perhaps 1/50th of the show. My wife and I have been doing this for 10 years now!
      To then listen to someone state comments like "I don't want to support the promoter"??????? I want people to revisit the first few posts in this thread and see the mentality of what we have to deal with.
      BTW: as a non-profit we are not directly affected by attendance anyway so I'm not exactly sure where that logic is going.

      (EDIT):
      PLEASE REMEMBER. Today we honor those who have sacrificed their lives so that you and I can do what we are doing at this very moment!
      Honor Them, Remember Them, and Forever Keep Them in your minds and hearts....
      Happy Memorial Day Everyone!
      Last edited by MadMax; 05-30-2016 at 03:25 PM.

    4. #34
      CMD2213 is offline Registered User
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      Well all the effort put in is appreciated. Hopefully whatever changes are needed are eventually made, and any issues brought up will no longer an issue in the near future. We all love our reeftanks/communities and all of those who help the growth and evolution of this hobby.
      I'll eventually go to Max again but having a 2nd kid on the way work being off and on kind of priorities over addiction.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

    5. #35
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by CMD2213 View Post
      Well all the effort put in is appreciated. Hopefully whatever changes are needed are eventually made, and any issues brought up will no longer an issue in the near future. We all love our reeftanks/communities and all of those who help the growth and evolution of this hobby.
      I'll eventually go to Max again but having a 2nd kid on the way work being off and on kind of priorities over addiction.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

      You're Darned STRAIGHT that is a higher priority!!! Congratulations man!!

      I pledge by the time he or she is 5-years old that I'll have the "MAX 3D Underwater Virtual-Reality Sub Visit To the Grand Cayman Wall Extravaganza" Fully Operational!!!






      (I'm dreaming of course, no such thing will take place, sigh! but it does sound cool, right? : )

    6. #36
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      As a professional in the convention and tradeshow industry I can tell you that what Kevin is going through to try to revitalize MAX is a very common situation. People are finicky and get bored and then demand something new and flashy. If the show needs updating then Kevin is taking the correct track to reach out to folks who typically attend to seek out what they want. What is it that you as an attendee want to see in place that will get you to go next year? As the Co-Chair of MACNA, we are dealing with that on a much larger scale. We are trying to put into place different things to get more exhibitors. Some companies don't want to exhibit because of a bad exhibitor experience last year or the year before. So we as MACNA promoters have to address those concerns. MAX is no different. I applaud Kevin for reading out to people to get their ideas. It can be an embarrassing and humbling experience to do that sometimes. It sounds like it is more important to Kevin to put on a good show than it is to worry about people complaining about things. Hopefully he can find the right solutions and produce the show for another ten years. We can never have too many reef shows!
      Dave
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    7. #37
      borg is offline Premium Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
      I always refused to charge even a dime for children (kids 12 and under have always been FREE) I should also point out that everything you've ever seen having to do with the kids (Touch Tank, Float-Your-Boat, HD Theater, Contests, Prizes, etc.) have always come straight our own pocket. Given that none of these things are revenue producing activities, I think you can imagine how the charges add up and up and up. The float-your-boat contest in 2015 cost me over $5gs alone to build (I took it all on myself both physically and financially, building this 10-foot long racing pool literally one week prior to the show)).....in 2016 we tried to find a sponsor to at least cover the costs of materials and prizes, but unfortunately nobody came through, so we had to cancel it altogether. I simply couldn't afford to throw away another $2gs, even after the enduring the sunk costs from the previous year. (It killed me then to make that decision and I regretted it even more later after seeing kids showing up at MAX expecting to sign up for Float-Your-Boat) Perhaps if more word got out about it some business would be willing to help. Its always an ROI thing for business people to consider.

      I bring this up so as to give people a very small snapshot of what goes on behind the scenes and this is constitutes perhaps 1/50th of the show. My wife and I have been doing this for 10 years now!
      To then listen to someone state comments like "I don't want to support the promoter"??????? I want people to revisit the first few posts in this thread and see the mentality of what we have to deal with.
      BTW: as a non-profit we are not directly affected by attendance anyway so I'm not exactly sure where that logic is going.
      I was gonna leave alone, but if you dont understand where Im from then I have to explain briefly.

      Your post above is what we need to read about though instead of the negativity and rudeness that comes out of your posts hence you get the mentality like mine. This isn't a preconceived notion, but rather a cause and effect issue.

      If attendance is decreasing then I would think that vendors would eventually not sign up for the show. Thats my logic.

      Some people will always support events like these regardless of who promotes the show and thats great because I agree, shows like these are good for the reefing community. Unfortunately though, there are some that wont support it because of who promotes it so its up to you if you want to change the "mentality" like mine.

      If not, its all good.

    8. #38
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
      I was gonna leave alone, but if you dont understand where Im from then I have to explain briefly.

      Your post above is what we need to read about though instead of the negativity and rudeness that comes out of your posts hence you get the mentality like mine. This isn't a preconceived notion, but rather a cause and effect issue.

      If attendance is decreasing then I would think that vendors would eventually not sign up for the show. Thats my logic.

      Some people will always support events like these regardless of who promotes the show and thats great because I agree, shows like these are good for the reefing community. Unfortunately though, there are some that wont support it because of who promotes it so its up to you if you want to change the "mentality" like mine.

      If not, its all good.

      And so if I am understanding you correctly (and forgive me if I am wrong)
      The MAX show, the vendors, the raffles, the livestock, the fellow hobbyists, etc. didn't capture your emotions
      But me and some guy bantering back-and-forth on SCR, that was the bench mark of your decision-making?

      Man, you gotta understand, that is pretty insulting to see 10-years of volunteer effort thrown down the toilet as if it never existed....
      and you expect me to prove my character now? Is that what you guys are expecting????
      Last edited by MadMax; 05-31-2016 at 11:07 AM.

    9. #39
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by DaveMorris View Post
      As a professional in the convention and tradeshow industry I can tell you that what Kevin is going through to try to revitalize MAX is a very common situation. People are finicky and get bored and then demand something new and flashy. If the show needs updating then Kevin is taking the correct track to reach out to folks who typically attend to seek out what they want. What is it that you as an attendee want to see in place that will get you to go next year? As the Co-Chair of MACNA, we are dealing with that on a much larger scale. We are trying to put into place different things to get more exhibitors. Some companies don't want to exhibit because of a bad exhibitor experience last year or the year before. So we as MACNA promoters have to address those concerns. MAX is no different. I applaud Kevin for reading out to people to get their ideas. It can be an embarrassing and humbling experience to do that sometimes. It sounds like it is more important to Kevin to put on a good show than it is to worry about people complaining about things. Hopefully he can find the right solutions and produce the show for another ten years. We can never have too many reef shows!

      Dave, the one main thing that keeps me going is a rudimentary understanding that your sentiments represent the majority opinion.
      Lets all hope this is correct. Thank you very much for your post. New favorite for me.
      Last edited by MadMax; 05-31-2016 at 11:26 AM.

    10. #40
      Squid is offline Registered User
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      Have you posted this on other forums? You might be able to get some more responses and feedback on some of the other more active and larger forums.

    11. #41
      borg is offline Premium Member
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      Unfortunately, it does. We live in a world where there are reviews of your work (or your behavior) are on the internet. What Ive seen is that your banned from SCR (a reef forum local to you), the thread about a vendor here, your banter with posters on SCR. Yes, unfortunately that does sway my opinion of supporting an event promoted by you.

      Heres an analogy that I can think of. Think of any product that you want to purchase online. I will read the reviews if the product is great, customer service is great, any information i can get from it. I also look at the dates on those reviews. If negative reviews were written years ago and have improved then im more likely to buy that product. If the negative reviews were written more recently, then ill generally stay away. Same with other services (restaurants, stores, etc).

      I apologize if youre insulted, but just because youve done 10-years of volunteer effort doesnt mean you have the right to be rude to people.

      I likely wont change the way you feel which is fine. However, Im telling you that you can actually change the way I feel.

    12. #42
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by borg View Post
      Unfortunately, it does. We live in a world where there are reviews of your work (or your behavior) are on the internet. What Ive seen is that your banned from SCR (a reef forum local to you), the thread about a vendor here, your banter with posters on SCR. Yes, unfortunately that does sway my opinion of supporting an event promoted by you.

      Heres an analogy that I can think of. Think of any product that you want to purchase online. I will read the reviews if the product is great, customer service is great, any information i can get from it. I also look at the dates on those reviews. If negative reviews were written years ago and have improved then im more likely to buy that product. If the negative reviews were written more recently, then ill generally stay away. Same with other services (restaurants, stores, etc).

      I apologize if youre insulted, but just because youve done 10-years of volunteer effort doesnt mean you have the right to be rude to people.

      I likely wont change the way you feel which is fine. However, Im telling you that you can actually change the way I feel.
      I like you analogy because i do the EXACT same thing as you with Amazon and other sites similar.

      Except here is the differnce: Rational Skepticism

      I understand there are COMPETITORS who's only agenda is to leave negative feedback (did I hit a bell just now?)

      I look at the number or posts and the content of those post in order to come to a logical conclusion.
      for instance if the person rating the products cheif complaint is that the shipment was late or his particular item was busted upon arrival, what relevance does that have towards the manufactures quality???
      More importantly, if less than a dozen people complain that their product was blemished, yet tens of thousands of the product was sold to mostly happy customers....I'm going to consider that a pretty good risk.

      So, now, given that some 20-something year old kid is bashing our show and I'm trying to protect our hard working exhibitors from his trash (perhaps not in the way you would like) you resolutely conclude that the entire show is not worthy of your time??? Or a business vendor who didn't like the fact that I wouldn't sell him a hobby table goes on a rampage and posts all our private e-mails, that's an "AH HAAAA!" moment fo you??? No, its just a disgruntled vendor lashing out with the only authority he has available to him. (the internet) You should recognize this, even if you're not a promoter. I deal with over 200 clients in a given year, NATURALLY one or two are going to be upset over something. ONE percent of the population (2 people out of 200) is no where near sufficient evidence to come to such a conclusion. If nothing else, weigh the credibility of the participants.: Could I Have gotten this far if I was simply some twit with an ego to support?

      If nothing else....IF NOTHING ELSE, respect the fact that I (literally a humble/hobbyist/blue-collar/disabled/middle-aged man and nothing more) come here to discuss these things in the open. What do you typically get from ANYONE elese in similar instances? SILENCE

      Silence is a convenient Cowards Shelter in my book.
      Last edited by MadMax; 05-31-2016 at 01:50 PM.

    13. #43
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      Max 2017!

      Quote Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
      I like you analogy because i do the EXACT same thing as you with Amazon and other sites similar.

      Except here is the differnce: Rational Skepticism

      I understand there are COMPETITORS who's only agenda is to leave negative feedback (did I hit a bell just now?)

      I look at the number or posts and the content of those post in order to come to a logical conclusion.
      for instance if the person rating the products cheif complaint is that the shipment was late or his particular item was busted upon arrival, what relevance does that have towards the manufactures quality???
      More importantly, if less than a dozen people complain that their product was blemished, yet tens of thousands of the product was sold to mostly happy customers....I'm going to consider that a pretty good risk.

      So, now, given that some 20-something year old kid is bashing our show and I'm trying to protect our hard working exhibitors from his trash (perhaps not in the way you would like) you resolutely conclude that the entire show is not worthy of your time??? Or a business vendor who didn't like the fact that I wouldn't sell him a hobby table goes on a rampage and posts all our private e-mails, that's an "AH HAAAA!" moment fo you??? No, its just a disgruntled vendor lashing out with the only authority he has available to him. (the internet) You should recognize this, even if you're not a promoter. I deal with over 200 clients in a given year, NATURALLY one or two are going to be upset over something. ONE percent of the population (2 people out of 200) is no where near sufficient evidence to come to such a conclusion. If nothing else, weigh the credibility of the participants.: Could I Have gotten this far if I was simply some twit with an ego to support?
      Well what happened on SCR and also the situation with our local reef shop that many of us have good relationship with did sway me not to go this year . Left a not so good taste in my mouth. And from the responses from my fellow buddies that went it seems that the last show was also affected with low attendance maybe those situations being part of the reason . I do hope to go next year and see the freshness you come up with for Max 2017. Good luck sir


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    14. #44
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
      Have you posted this on other forums? You might be able to get some more responses and feedback on some of the other more active and larger forums.
      Yes, we participate in 11 different forums, though I have not yet started any other threads except on Reef2Reef at this point. We have not decided 100% yet whether there will be a show in 2017

    15. #45
      MadMax is offline Registered User
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      Quote Originally Posted by chireef View Post
      Well what happened on SCR and also the situation with our local reef shop that many of us have good relationship with did sway me not to go this year . Left a not so good taste in my mouth. And from the responses from my fellow buddies that went it seems that the last show was also affected with low attendance maybe those situations being part of the reason . I do hope to go next year and see the freshness you come up with for Max 2017. Good luck sir

      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      That is the ray of hope I was looking for. Thank you for considering what I had to say and not ALL simply what your buddy's think.

      Promoter's Lives Matter! : )

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