Too much actinic?

[pirate2876]

Is it possible to have so much actinic lighting it is detrimental to corals? Visually I like it, but if I want to make sure I cant over-actinic a tank.

[cutterx23]

Lol impossible!! Don't really know for sure but I don't believe aside from possible color morphing that it can be detrimental.

[jasonp87]

White light just has every color in it and certain wavelengths like red are filtered out faster. Blue wavelengths are what corals see most often in the wild since they penetrate deepest and most reefs are far deeper than our tanks. I don't think it's a problem. White light just has every color in it and certain wavelengths like red are filtered out faster.

[laffingcrow]

You could probably over do it with LEDs
Also blue light is more powerful than white light, notice the blue spike in any spectral graph of light.
If they were over 600 PAR some corals would not like it.
I've also seen an eight bulb T-5 fixture that put out that much light and burned up a show chalice that was too close.

[pirate2876]

Well the jury is still out on this one. I have a lot of light as it is in the tank, so I think I would have to take all the lighting into account for any bleaching or unhappy corals. Everything looks good except for a superman monti and sunset monti, which both deteriorated at the same time. And one of those rusty/inferno type mushroom polyps. He doesnt look bad, he just hasnt grown like all the rest. All the Acros are growing and have great polyp extension though.

Initially I had the LEDs at 100%. I have since tuned back to around 75-80%.

[laffingcrow]

Well I think the Jury has come back if you are willing to read through this...

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/equi...hesis-you.html

In this link and the link within it are the documents where the scientists have concluded that the different symbiotic Dinoflagellates that reside in the coral tissue and use photosynthesis to provide around half or so of the nutrition the coral needs; have different needs regarding specific wavelengths of light.

In the link look closely at the number associated with each color. You can see where they removed the zooxanthellae from the tissue to measure what color of light each needed and you can even see how they absorb one wavelength and EMIT another; this is where fluorescence comes in.

Notice how the photosynthesis can be broken down into components of Chlorophyll a, b, and c, Carotenoids, Peridinin, Neo-peridinin, Diadinoxanthin, Dinoxanthin, Neo-Dinoxanthin, b carotene; each one needing a different wavelength from 410nm (purple almost Ultra violet) up to 477nm (blue almost turquoise)
...and notice the red in Chlorophyll a and c, 634nm and 662nm.

The problem as I see it (unless you have a fixture with more colors of LEDs) is your blues are most likely a sharp spike somewhere between 450nm-460nm which is only ONE of the sixteen wavelengths listed in the chart for those corals. While there may be some overlap depending on manufacturer the more colors you have within PAR spectrum the happier you will be with growth and color of most corals.

White light has all of those missing wavelengths but at a much much lower power.
Take a look at the industry as a whole and you see a shift where the white LEDs used to be cool whites only to utilize the blue spike with in it but now they are turning to neutral whites to utilize more of the red spike(660nm) and using a two to one ratio of blue to whites.

What fixtures do you have now? How many watts for each fixture? How many watts is each LED?
My money is on too few wavelengths to support those corals... sunset and superman.
I've personally lost corals and some lost color because I only had 455 nm Blues... and I will not buy anymore of those colored corals until I have upgraded my lights.

I don't believe white light is even necessary if you have the other wavelengths "with in" the blue spectrum that are necessary for ALL of the individual components of Chlorophyll.
The science supports this and if you have ever been below 20 ft. under water you know that red is the first color to be filtered out.

If I had a nickel for every tank I've tested where the reefer thought their lights were bright enough and then they were shocked to find out they were not.... well you know...I'd be rich right? lol

Safe to say that to this date I've only tested one tank that had too much light and it was all t-5s.
Also safe to say that if the spread is correct (overlapping circles of light) you won't have too much power even with 3 watt LEDs. I've found even with 3 watt LEDs you need lenses or it won't be powerful enough.
I thought my 3 watt LEDs over my desktop pico would be a flame thrower... was I ever wrong! Had to put the lenses on to keep from losing softies.

I'll look for the link but the research showed no appreciable growth beyond 600 PAR and I think you would have to have a cannon type fixture to be too powerful?

Hope this helps
Brian

[pirate2876]

Thanks for the awesome reply. I will look through that article when I get home.

The problem I believe may be intensity. I have a very high light system maybe peaking with too much actinic? I am open to suggestions or recommendations. I honestly really enjoy the "pop" you get with the LED actinic. And I would rather not get rid of those.

The tanks inhabitants are varied. Mostly SPS through the mid portion up, with zoas scattered with LPS on the sides and sand.

2x 250 DE halides 14k phoenix bulbs
2x 36" t-5's geisman pink and actinic bulbs(dont remember the names..)
1x 36" Current TRU lumen fixture 453nm with dimmer. Tuned down now http://current-usa.com/aquarium-led-...riplight-kits/
1x 36" Ebay LED light with 2w LEDS (Not sure I want or need this anymore) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-Ree...item3f1909bbb5
1x strip of LEDs on the T-5 fixture http://www.marinedepot.com/Hamilton_...RTRFTF-vi.html
All this on a 65g (36x18x24) tank.

Maybe I am just overdoing the lighting in general. The halides only run about 6.5 hrs, the t-5s and LED are staggered around 10 hrs each. I could look into decreasing the light cycle. I would be happy to have anyone test the PAR or intensity.

[laffingcrow]

Wow that's a lot going on... wish you would have shared that info up front... lol
PM me about testing PAR

[pirate2876]

Wow that's a lot going on... wish you would have shared that info up front... lol
PM me about testing PAR

I know, I should have posted all the lighting beforehand. My initial question was just regarding upgrading my LEDS to include another LED fixture.

I wouldnt mind taking you up on that offer to test PAR. I would love to get an idea of what I need or don't need. I will send you a PM shortly

Thanks,

Ray

[Paxis]

I appreciate everyone's comments & information.
This post is brilliant!

Well I think the Jury has come back if you are willing to read through this...

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/equi...hesis-you.html

In this link and the link within it are the documents where the scientists have concluded that the different symbiotic Dinoflagellates that reside in the coral tissue and use photosynthesis to provide around half or so of the nutrition the coral needs; have different needs regarding specific wavelengths of light.

In the link look closely at the number associated with each color. You can see where they removed the zooxanthellae from the tissue to measure what color of light each needed and you can even see how they absorb one wavelength and EMIT another; this is where fluorescence comes in.

Notice how the photosynthesis can be broken down into components of Chlorophyll a, b, and c, Carotenoids, Peridinin, Neo-peridinin, Diadinoxanthin, Dinoxanthin, Neo-Dinoxanthin, b carotene; each one needing a different wavelength from 410nm (purple almost Ultra violet) up to 477nm (blue almost turquoise)
...and notice the red in Chlorophyll a and c, 634nm and 662nm.

The problem as I see it (unless you have a fixture with more colors of LEDs) is your blues are most likely a sharp spike somewhere between 450nm-460nm which is only ONE of the sixteen wavelengths listed in the chart for those corals. While there may be some overlap depending on manufacturer the more colors you have within PAR spectrum the happier you will be with growth and color of most corals.

White light has all of those missing wavelengths but at a much much lower power.
Take a look at the industry as a whole and you see a shift where the white LEDs used to be cool whites only to utilize the blue spike with in it but now they are turning to neutral whites to utilize more of the red spike(660nm) and using a two to one ratio of blue to whites.

What fixtures do you have now? How many watts for each fixture? How many watts is each LED?
My money is on too few wavelengths to support those corals... sunset and superman.
I've personally lost corals and some lost color because I only had 455 nm Blues... and I will not buy anymore of those colored corals until I have upgraded my lights.

I don't believe white light is even necessary if you have the other wavelengths "with in" the blue spectrum that are necessary for ALL of the individual components of Chlorophyll.
The science supports this and if you have ever been below 20 ft. under water you know that red is the first color to be filtered out.

If I had a nickel for every tank I've tested where the reefer thought their lights were bright enough and then they were shocked to find out they were not.... well you know...I'd be rich right? lol

Safe to say that to this date I've only tested one tank that had too much light and it was all t-5s.
Also safe to say that if the spread is correct (overlapping circles of light) you won't have too much power even with 3 watt LEDs. I've found even with 3 watt LEDs you need lenses or it won't be powerful enough.
I thought my 3 watt LEDs over my desktop pico would be a flame thrower... was I ever wrong! Had to put the lenses on to keep from losing softies.

I'll look for the link but the research showed no appreciable growth beyond 600 PAR and I think you would have to have a cannon type fixture to be too powerful?

Hope this helps
Brian