Home Made v. Scripps

[famvac]

I have a question I'd like to get some feedback on--Where do you get your water? Do you make your own or get it at Scripps? When I was into SW tanks almost 20 yrs ago, I always got my water at Scripps and had no serious problems. I was told by a LFS that the Scripps water is high in phosphates, but I have tested it and it tested fine on all parameters. I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this (and if this has been previously discussed, please point me to the post).

[shmitr]

I've have great luck with Scripps water so as long as the corals stay happy and it stays free, I'll continue to use it. This hobby is expensive enough, we are lucky to have a place like Scripps around.

Oh yeah, I've never gotten high phosphate test results from Scripps either...

[singlefintj]

it doesnt suprise me that the lfs told you that, think about it would they tell you to go get for free what they charge god knows how much. i have and always will use scripps, trace elements are money because i cannot afford the fancy additives. p.s i always get water rain or shine and my pretty corals are a shinning example :cool: good luck boss
tj

[obarrera]

I prefer using scripps then making my own saltwater, there's two reasons, one that im kinda lazy:D, and the other one for the fact that it's natural.:)

The fish store that told you the water contained phosphates just wants to sell some salt.

[Dakota]

Note: LFS' are NOT to be trusted under ANY circumstances. They are in business to make money, and they need YOU to buy things to do that. There are a few exception, however, since they are so far and in between, it's better not to even try.

Use the boards like these and others to get your information (as you have) and you will have a sucessful, thriving reef, without the extra crap.

[mer116]

i used IO for about 2 years, then switched over to scripps for about a year or so... then back to IO nowadays. Reaction from the fish/corals was trivial. I did have to clean the front glass more often with the scripps though.

I'm using the synthetic now just for convenience sake. It's a hassle driving there, filling up your containers then lugging them into your place. I can't believe how many times I did it in the past. I guess I'm more easily aggravated nowadays :)

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by mer116
i used IO for about 2 years, then switched over to scripps for about a year or so... then back to IO nowadays. Reaction from the fish/corals was trivial. I did have to clean the front glass more often with the scripps though.

I'm using the synthetic now just for convenience sake. It's a hassle driving there, filling up your containers then lugging them into your place. I can't believe how many times I did it in the past. I guess I'm more easily aggravated nowadays :)

For me it’s been quite the opposite. During constant rains few months back I was forced to switch back to mixing my own water for few weeks. During that that time "synthetic" water just about killed my some of my corals (mushrooms and xenia). Switched back to Scripps and my corals were happy within 24 hours.

Without Scripps, I will not be in this hobby.

[Dannyboy]

You know whats funny, even during the rainy times I still get Scripps when everybody says not to, and its always fine. I use it on seahorses, SPS, and just about anything else you can think of. I really dont think even when it rains, or after it does, that the water quality suffers at all. I always use it, at least once a week and have never had any i'll effects.
LFS' are NOT to be trusted under ANY circumstances Aw c'mon Dakota, I almost take offense to that;) jk. You do have to watch out though and Dakota is right about not being able to trust them...well most of the time.

[BrookR1]

Here's an article from Wet Web Media

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm

If you factor in the cost of gas and time, it's about even for both...depending on how much you use/need.

[MonsterC]

Ive used both, and now only use Scripps.I get it rain or shine also because I dont see Scripps Closed when it rains because they cant use the water!!So it must not be that bad.I think using Scripps over Salt depends on where you live and how much you need.If you need many Gallons and can transport it.I would.But if you live a ways away it might not be as convenient and cost effective.Im a few miles away and Very LAZY, so its a no brainer for me!!!:confused:

[The_Gryphon]

I say make it a weekly beach day. For me, if it's Saturday I'll go to La Jolla with my son and play in the sand for a while then stop at the pump on the way home. Sunday, the wife can come too and we all play in the sand and then stop at the pump on the way home. Get exercise, family time, a tan, and water needed for your water change. Sounds like a good day to me and gas wouldn't be an issue considerring it's family time =).

[lucubrator]

Originally posted by MonsterC
I get it rain or shine also because I dont see Scripps Closed when it rains because they cant use the water!!
I talked to a girl who works there behind the scenes a little while back. She said that though they're always using ocean water, they go through the same red tides and algal blooms that the ocean does.
As a note: I use scripps water too, I just keep some on hand in case it rains.

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by The_Gryphon
I say make it a weekly beach day. For me, if it's Saturday I'll go to La Jolla with my son and play in the sand for a while then stop at the pump on the way home. Sunday, the wife can come too and we all play in the sand and then stop at the pump on the way home. Get exercise, family time, a tan, and water needed for your water change. Sounds like a good day to me and gas wouldn't be an issue considerring it's family time =).

And you cannot put price tag on that. My kids love to go to Scripps and get water with me. :)

[Agent003]

Originally posted by BrookR1
Here's an article from Wet Web Media

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm

If you factor in the cost of gas and time, it's about even for both...depending on how much you use/need.

Not if you live a mile or so away ;)

[sdwrx]

I use IO. But I live in Ramona and my F350 only gets 9mpg... and the pier is about 35miles away. I would probably use Scripps water if I lived closer. But for now, IO is more time and cost effective for me.

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by BrookR1
Here's an article from Wet Web Media

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm

If you factor in the cost of gas and time, it's about even for both...depending on how much you use/need.

It takes gas to buy salt from LFS(plus the cost of the salt). RO water is not free either, no matter how you get it, LFS, vending machine or make your own(equipment, filter, water).

I think people are very religious about Scripps water here. Very similar to PMDD in planted tanks hobby. Just do not say anything bad about it or they come after you.:rolleyes:

[BrookR1]

Yeah...it's weird. I've read sigs with Scripps water listed as one of the features in their aquarium setup. Can't remember who. It's all the same...it's water.

Just some random thoughts (these aren't knocks...so don't take them that way...I would use it if I lived closer):

Take the Scripps Water challenge...2 out of 3 reefers prefer the taste of Scripps over mixed water. It's full-bodied flavor gives it that extra kick.

Place a Scripps grown coral next to a salt mix grown coral. Can you tell which one is which?

So, what do you top your water off with each morning? RO/DI, right? You're already purchasing RO/DI water.

[JeromeBaker]

I love scripps and used it for two years. I was like a scripps spokeperson. "scripps is the best" "nothing is better than scripps" blah blah blah we've all heard it and some still say it but since moving I have been forced to mix. All I can say is Oceanic salt is the Bomb diggity! It costs good money but there is a visible difference in health and an obvious acceleration in growth when compared to the results I was getting with scripps. I feel like such a trader to my scripps family but its true...

[pk-sd]

Yes I used Oceanic salt also when I had to. My corals, mushrooms and Xenia (the one I got from you Zac) almost died on me. One water change with the Scripps, they came back to life.

I still have half a bag of Oceanic salt sitting in my garage.

[BrookR1]

There's one thing about Oceanic...lack of Alk, but that's a simple fix. Anytime you switch from one salt to another, there's going to be a "break-in" period with your tank. When I switched from Instant Ocean to Oceanic, my corals were like "where'd all this calcium come from?"

[MrKrispy]

Oceanic is weird. I bought a promo bad and the regular plastic jug. When I would make up new water I would get phosphates from Salifert and Seachem tests. Keep in mind I use lab grade pure water to mix the salt with. Phosphates in new water is a big no no for me since i run a 20g sps tank.


However, I tested Scripps a couple of times in the first third of the year and got higher phosphates every time. Probably because of all the rains, but I waited a week before I ever got water.

So for most Scripps is okay, not for my 20g SPS though (until I can run a better skimmer).

[brncsfns5621]

I remeber seeing a guy that live many miles away getting Scripps at one point. He bought a 300 gallon tank and put it on a small trailer. He would get water once a month and store it in his garage. Might be an idea for you guys that live out in the boon docks.

[sdwrx]

Originally posted by pk-sd
It takes gas to buy salt from LFS(plus the cost of the salt).

I actually got a sweet deal a year a go when they were selling 200gal buckets of IO for $30 plus free shipping! I bought 6 buckets! I am still using this salt... Hard to beat that! My calculations show that it would cost me $21 just to get the Scripps water and bring it home, plus about 3 hours of my time per trip. I try and do water changes at least every other week, if not every week... That would be about $60 a month just in gas! Know that I think about it some more, a 20% water change for me is 30gal... which would probably lower my mpg even more :eek:

[BrookR1]

Originally posted by brncsfns5621
He would get water once a month and store it in his garage. Might be an idea for you guys that live out in the boon docks.

Ewwww....month old die off.

[MrKrispy]

a month is probably better than it sitting a few days. Without aeration all the bugs will die in a few hours anyway, a month is more than enough time for the die off to get processed. Of course, this assumes the tank isn't sitting in light and letting algae grow...

[Therapy]

Originally posted by BrookR1
Ewwww....month old die off.

Is that a true statment?
Wouldnt it be better to store water for a month, and indeed let the "potential bad elements" die off before you add it to your tank? Maybe just keep a powerhead and heater in the bucket?
Does anyone else store the water before using it or do you all just get it and pour it in. Is there any "bad" effects to storing it in a dark bucket for a month?
I know I am in the practice of getting about 80 gallons of water at once, and doing two 40 gallon changes in a month. I store the 40 gallons for about a month, and have had no troubles

[Stephen3302]

Natural is often times the way to go.... or so I've read/heard.

[colindoug3]

there has been talk about scripps water being pumped in from the submarine canyons of la jolla. no... most people dont believe this anymore.
what about die off? organisms make it through these filters? animals? plants? i would like to see this proved or disproved. data, evidence, proof, cold hard facts, not opinions.

[BrookR1]

I have an idea for an experiment....the iced tea experiment.

Fill one mason jar with filtered Scripps water and the other jar with salt mix water using pure RO/DI (mixed to match the SG of Scripps). Place the two jars out on a sunny balcony and see which one grows algae fastest. Algae needs both nutrients AND light to grow...so whichever water has the most nutrients/organics should be able to grow algae.

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by BrookR1
I have an idea for an experiment....the iced tea experiment.

Fill one mason jar with filtered Scripps water and the other jar with salt mix water using pure RO/DI (mixed to match the SG of Scripps). Place the two jars out on a sunny balcony and see which one grows algae fastest. Algae needs both nutrients AND light to grow...so whichever water has the most nutrients/organics should be able to grow algae.

If you are trying to say that the water producing more algae is bad, that would be a wrong statement. Corals need nutrient rich water also, that is the reason we use Scripps water.

The key is to have water that is low in algae encouraging nutrients like Nitrates and Phosphate(Which Scripps is) while still containing beneficial trace elements.

You do not even need to do this test, as Scripps water will surely grow algae faster, because natural sea water is designed to support life, micro and macro. Synthetic water is best estimate to mimic natural sea water.

[Trickman2]

Originally posted by pk-sd
If you are trying to say that the water producing more algae is bad, that would be a wrong statement. Corals need nutrient rich water also, that is the reason we use Scripps water.

The key is to have water that is low in algae encouraging nutrients like Nitrates and Phosphate(Which Scripps is) while still containing beneficial trace elements.

You do not even need to do this test, as Scripps water will surely grow algae faster, because natural sea water is designed to support life, micro and macro. Synthetic water is best estimate to mimic natural sea water.

Pk actually you are incorrect about the coral reefs. Coral reefs actually live in some of the most nutrientless water around and it is important to their survival. They don't call it the desert of the sea for no reason. That is one of the most amazing things about the coral reefs. I suggest you do some reading on this subject. If we where talking about the kelp forest I would agree with you. Corals and the Coral reefs have very little nutrients in the water.

Hence the problems we encounter when we try to place them in a Box of water. Now is scripps water a bad thing or any ocean water for that matter. I don't really think so. Anyways just some food for thought.

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by Trickman2
Pk actually you are incorrect about the coral reefs. Coral reefs actually live in some of the most nutrientless water around and it is important to their survival. They don't call it the desert of the sea for no reason. That is one of the most amazing things about the coral reefs. I suggest you do some reading on this subject. If we where talking about the kelp forest I would agree with you. Corals and the Coral reefs have very little nutrients in the water.

Hence the problems we encounter when we try to place them in a Box of water. Now is scripps water a bad thing or any ocean water for that matter. I don't really think so. Anyways just some food for thought.

Whoever call coral reefs desert of the ocean must have been drunk. Probably did not see all the water…..haha.

There are actually quiet a few nutrients in the natural sea water. Otherwise we all be growing corals is distilled water with salt mixed in it.

Take a look at this link and it will give you some information on what natural sea water consists of.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seah2omats.htm

Quick summary from above.

“Natural seawater has a small, but biologically important concentration of organic matter, including vitamins, enzymes, pigments, amino acids, antibiotics and toxins... not to mention the substantial plankton, bacteria, funguses and more from which these largely originate.”

There are some very nice books I can recommend that can clarify your misconception that Natural seawater is “nutrientless”. Maybe pollution less (well its suppose to be)?!

[BrookR1]

You left out the paragraph below that states that these organics are replaced through normal feeding of your fish.

Trickman brought up an interesting point too. The fact that we're using San Diego water to keep animals from tropical climates alive. Each climate has its own characteristics and nutrient levels/feeding requirements.

[MrKrispy]

nutrients at the chemical level are vastly below that of the organism level, live "nutrients" are always extremely low around reefs. When they rise this results in coral die off from oxygen depletion and toxins from the nutrient die off.

[sdwrx]

Tropical waters have substatially less nutrients than waters elsewhere. There are many more nutrients in the water off our coast than in the waters of the South Pacific, for example. This is one reason why the water is so clear.

Read about the thermocline that keeps most nutrients out of the shallow waters http://www.biosbcc.net/ocean/marinesci/04benthon/crform.htm

a quote from Borneman:

"... if the plankton rich waters of the northern and southern latitudes were constantly washed into the reef, the bright tropical sun would fuel the growth of huge beds and mats of algae and would obscure the clear water with microscopic plants and animals. The life-giving sun would fail to reach the organisms below, and the reef would soon expire in its entirety as its complex web of life would be destroyed, link by link.

He also has a great chart showing the environmental averages and extremes for the coral reefs that have been tested. The only nutrients tested for where NO3 and PO4.

Nutrient........ MIN............MAX............. ...AVG
NO3...............0ppm ........3034ppm.........0.25ppm
PO3...............0ppm.........0.54ppm...........0 .13ppm

Nutrients & Coral Disease
"The infectious agents that cause the diseases probably feed off the extra nutrients, which are normally in short supply in tropical waters. Upsetting the nutrient balance on the reefs may damage coral in other ways, too. For example, some scientists argue that nutrients stimulate the growth of algae, which then take over space that would otherwise be occupied by coral."
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4539

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by BrookR1
You left out the paragraph below that states that these organics are replaced through normal feeding of your fish.

Trickman brought up an interesting point too. The fact that we're using San Diego water to keep animals from tropical climates alive. Each climate has its own characteristics and nutrient levels/feeding requirements.

The point is not how nutrients get there. But the fact natural sea water is more than RO/DI water with salt. By mixing salt in water you are trying to re-create what nature took millions of years to develop in a 5 gallon bucket of water using salt from a company whose primary goal is to sell you more salt.

Of course we lived in a tropical environment NSW from there would be a better choice than Scripps, but what we have here is a closer match than imitation water. And believe me I know a lot about imitation stuff. As a vegetarian I eat a lot of imitation meat, and let me tell you it tastes nothing like the real stuff(I wasn’t a vegetarian all my life).:)

[Dannyboy]

First off, vegetarians get eaten....haha jk
Anyway heres a really cool 4 part article by Borneman that has the Desert of the sea reference.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.htm

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by Dannyboy
First off, vegetarians get eaten....haha jk
Anyway heres a really cool 4 part article by Borneman that has the Desert of the sea reference.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.htm

First off, meat eater are fat....haha jk (not really :D).

Thanks for the link, I will reader that later today. I like and respect Eric Borneman (also a vegetarian :)). He also happens to recommend using natural sea water in his aquarium corals book.

[BrookR1]

Originally posted by pk-sd
The point is not how nutrients get there. But the fact natural sea water is more than RO/DI water with salt.

I understand this. But in addition to the higher nutrient levels already in the sea water, you're adding additional nutrients to your tank to feed your fish on top of any target feeding for your corals.

Unlike the ocean, our small little boxes have a harder time cleaning the gunk out of the water, which is why we're forced to use and maintain heavy protein skimming and filtration methods. Kalk to control phosphates, reduced feeding, DSBs and BB tanks to control nitrates, removing excess uneaten food, adding snails, hermits and shrimp to serve as a cleanup crew, vacuuming gravel to remove detritus, scraping algae off glass, using activated carbon to remove chemicals. Most of what we do as reefers involves removing stuff because we overstuff our boxes with lots of animals that wouldn't normally co-habitate in such a tiny area so close to each other. It's really a testament to how far the hobby has come and how important the development of new products and practices are to the hobby.

[pk-sd]

In a way it’s good that not everyone in San Diego does or can use Scripps water. As once I was told by a Scripps employee that Scripps pays OSHA for every gallon of water used. And if that cost goes up by too much they might close it for general public (including all local stores that use and sell the same water). I would hate to lose such a precious resource.

If it’s good enough for SIO and Birch, It’s good enough for me. For some people that live too far to use it and bad mouth it, for them its just sour grapes.

[Therapy]

This is an ACTUAL intelligent post........I am more comfortable with us just returning to calling each other names !! j/k
Side note. I am off to go get scripps water . What a lovely day !!

[BrookR1]

...and if you want to pour dissolved whale turds into your tank, you should have every right to!

LOL...ooops....think I just knocked it down a notch.

[colindoug3]

what the f---does OSHA have to do with our ocean? those rat *******s, i swear!

[MrKrispy]

Originally posted by pk-sd
In a way it’s good that not everyone in San Diego does or can use Scripps water. As once I was told by a Scripps employee that Scripps pays OSHA for every gallon of water used. And if that cost goes up by too much they might close it for general public (including all local stores that use and sell the same water). I would hate to lose such a precious resource.

If it’s good enough for SIO and Birch, It’s good enough for me. For some people that live too far to use it and bad mouth it, for them its just sour grapes.

I think this was disproven a few months back but I can't find the thread. There have been several rumors similar to this since the SDReefs inception. I think the source of them is because Scripps limited the large output nozzle a while back. My understanding is that large-volume users needed to be scheduled instead of taking up the damn faucet for two hours when other people need to get to it. That could be a rumor as well though. We get opposing quotes from two different maintenance people! We get lots of conflicting things from Scripps employees as well. Hmph. Well people can always throw a magDrive off PB pier and get water heh.

[pk-sd]

OSHA gets into everyones business.

I hope they never shut the spigot down for us. I would even be willing to pay a little extra to get "natural Salt water". In Seattle they charge $0.05 per gallon at Seattle Aquarium. Still not a bad deal.

These days there are so many research facilities hurting for money that they might look at this project as place to save money or raise money. Maybe they can charge double the price for those non-San Diego county residents.:D

[BrookR1]

kinda like a sin tax, eh?

[scubadestinatio]

What is the S.G. of the scripts water. I used to get "Catalina Water" from Fountain's adn the SG there was too high and I had to dilute that stuff.

[scubadestinatio]

also, where exactly is the pump and / or how do you exacty get there. I know where the peer is, but where is the pump.

[famvac]

I rread it at 1.025

[scubadestinatio]

you dont find that too high?

[sdwrx]

1.025 is perfect for reefs

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by scubadestinatio
also, where exactly is the pump and / or how do you exacty get there. I know where the peer is, but where is the pump.

Check out this earlier thread......

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1172&highlight=spigot

[fier138]

scripps is the only water i have ever used I have never had a problem

[Trickman2]

Again, Scripps water is not a big issue. Using Premaid or Scripps should not matter. I use to use water straight out of the ocean with no ill effects. Again, The water is not a big deal AND SHOULD NOT Make a difference. I am sure some stores would like to tell you that it is but that is because they lose money. Free water or Buying water hmm. Anyways you can't go wrong with either. So Have fun.:D Besides Their are bigger Problems to Tackle than water.

[Roger]

exactly where do you guys go to get scripps water? i am a newbie in this forum and in reefkeeping.

[mer116]

i spoke w/ barry from clams direct a few months ago. and he was telling me how his system and a bunch of others in san diego crashed at the same time when they were using scripps a few years ago.

just something to think about.

[pk-sd]

There are many (many!) reasons why tanks crash. People here have been using Scripps water for several years and Birch has been using it for decades with no serious ill effect.

Ricestudios has his tank crash last week and he was using synthetic salt. So it can be anything.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by scubadestinatio
you dont find that too high?

I keep mine at 1.024-025. Recenlty, I had an over flow and it got diluted to 1.023 and I just haven't spend the time to raise it again. My corals seem happier when it's higher (1.026 even).

[sdwrx]

NSW is 1.027

[MrKrispy]

sorry, I beg to differ. NSW from these parts will vary. For the few years I used Scripps I would 1.023-1.026 using a refractometer for water which I had let sit overnight at room temp. Sometimes people take readings of the water as soon as they get it, and the SG will differ because of the wide temp. disparity. Plus many people will use swing-arm hydrometers, but I am not gonna go there...

Point being, let the Scripps water match your tank water temp. before taking a reading, and always check it before you use large quanities of it.

[chevell]

Seems that the scripps water is good enough even after a rain for me and with the price of salt being rediculas I really don't have a choice but to use it. I drive a 4by4 chevy that is'nt too good with gas but only live a few miles away form scripps so the gas versis the price of salt isn't even close for me. And with the 90 gallons I pick up at a time and use each month the cost of salt would break the bank using that much water.