DIY acrylic sump/refugium - How does it look?

[eugreef]

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/63404b52943f0fc7a.bmp
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/63404b53c8390015b.bmp

Im going to try and make this from acrylic sheet. Ive made an acrylic sump before from sheet acrylic so it will be my second time around. The first one was 15 gallon. This one will be roughly 40 gallons. I am worried about the front panel bowing outward due to the pressure of the water when its full. Ill be using 1/4" acrylic ~.22". You guys see any possible problems with this design? any input?

[Bio-Nut]

looks fine but I would put in a down flow from the skimer chamber to the ref so that you get the whole body of water flowing through the refugium instead of just across the top! I would also plan on keeping the water level as high as possible in the return pump chamber so that you dont get a ton of micro bubbles in the tank!

I really like the horseshoe design I have ran them fo years and think that it is the best way to turn the refugium in to another display tank!

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/chian0076/sumpskimmertopoff.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/chian0076/sumprefinedtoscale-1.jpg

[tom619]

cooool....

[pressing SDR - "like" button] lol

the only thing i could think of is that the last chamber -where the water is drying up from evaporation- is too small. If you don't watch it, ur pump might get dry quickly and damaged. but if you have a ATO, then that should fix the problem.

ps, you wont have microbubble problems if you're using filter socks with that holder that i see. if u dont, then u need a baffle



.

[Two Bit Scooter]

+1 for add a baffle.

You might also want to leave more room for water to back up when you turn off the return pump (or the power goes out).


Edit: What Bio-Nut says next! :)

I'd recommend lowering the water level in both the fuge and final chamber by cutting the second overflow/grate much lower so that there isn't any drop between the second and third chamber. Does that make sense?

[Bio-Nut]

The micro bubble I was refering to are the ones going to be created by the pump taking in air bubbles from the drop/ low water level in the return chamber. And in addition if you want to have a healthier refugium DO NOT USE A FILTER SOCK it traps a majority of the nutrient needed for feeding the fuge! just run the flow through the sump at around 400 gph and you will be very happy with your design!

[Techknowledgy]

+2 for more baffles.

[eugreef]

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/63404b5537f451b10.bmp

Thank you for all of the great feedback. I am constantly thinking of ways to better the design so keep em coming!


looks fine but I would put in a down flow from the skimer chamber to the ref so that you get the whole body of water flowing through the refugium instead of just across the top! I would also plan on keeping the water level as high as possible in the return pump chamber so that you dont get a ton of micro bubbles in the tank!
I really like the horseshoe design I have ran them fo years and think that it is the best way to turn the refugium in to another display tank!

This is my first horse shoe sump design. I really wanted to have the refug as a display plus the return pump is closer to where the return bulkhead will be and will minimize head loss.



The micro bubble I was refering to are the ones going to be created by the pump taking in air bubbles from the drop/ low water level in the return chamber. And in addition if you want to have a healthier refugium DO NOT USE A FILTER SOCK it traps a majority of the nutrient needed for feeding the fuge! just run the flow through the sump at around 400 gph and you will be very happy with your design!

No filter sock? What do I use for mechanical filtration?

So flow goes counterclockwise. The first section(back left) is where the water enters through the sock holder. Water enters the refugium through the bulkhead at the bottom then goes to the return in the back right section. I am not worried so much about micro bubbles. The sump I have right now does not have multiple baffles and there are no micro bubbles. The water level will be high enough so that micro bubbles will not be a problem.

What do you guys think about the new design?

[Bio-Nut]

The skimmer and refugium are the filtration! Just remember to keep the flow to 400 gph and you will be happy with the end result! Down the road you might want to get a tunze skimmer. I have gotten a lot of people hooken on them and they said they will no longer use anything else!

check out the link I sent you this morning it will really help you out with your designs!

Ian

[Two Bit Scooter]

What do you guys think about the new design?

Sorry, but I don't think you will be happy with the bulkhead between the first and second sections. You'll need to keep the water level high in the first for the hob skimmer, and with this design that level will also be in the fuge section. If you have a drop into the final section you will have a micro-bubble problem. If the water level is not constant throughout the sump then the drop should be entering the fuge section where there will be time for the bubbles to rise to the surface not next to the return pumps.

[eugreef]

The skimmer and refugium are the filtration! Just remember to keep the flow to 400 gph and you will be happy with the end result! Down the road you might want to get a tunze skimmer. I have gotten a lot of people hooken on them and they said they will no longer use anything else!

check out the link I sent you this morning it will really help you out with your designs!

Ian

Tunze eh? I am trying to make the skimmer section big enough to accommodate a skimmer upgrade down the line. I like how the tunze has a really small footprint. It will be perfect for my sump. I was actually looking at the aqua C EV. I had heard great reviews about that skimmer. Any opinions?






Sorry, but I don't think you will be happy with the bulkhead between the first and second sections. You'll need to keep the water level high in the first for the hob skimmer, and with this design that level will also be in the fuge section. If you have a drop into the final section you will have a micro-bubble problem. If the water level is not constant throughout the sump then the drop should be entering the fuge section where there will be time for the bubbles to rise to the surface not next to the return pumps.


So you think I should have the drop into the fuge and put the bulkhead between the second and return section? (swap the location of the bulkhead for teeth and visa versa)

[acbaldwin]

If you go with a dual drain herbie microbubbles will not be an issue from the drain. I ran 1000gph through mine and no noise or bubbles.
When planning the sump remember to leave enough room on top for water draining from the display tank during power outages.
I also agree with Two Bit about the level issue in the return section. Maybe I'm just stoopid, but is there a reason the return, intake, and fuge need to be so separated? My 240 had the drain output at one end of a 60 gallon and the return intake at the other, with lots o fuge goodness in the middle.

[eugreef]

If you go with a dual drain herbie microbubbles will not be an issue from the drain. I ran 1000gph through mine and no noise or bubbles.
When planning the sump remember to leave enough room on top for water draining from the display tank during power outages.
I also agree with Two Bit about the level issue in the return section. Maybe I'm just stoopid, but is there a reason the return, intake, and fuge need to be so separated? My 240 had the drain output at one end of a 60 gallon and the return intake at the other, with lots o fuge goodness in the middle.

Can you show me a picture of what you mean with "dual drain herbie"?

I wanted to separate the fuge and return so the cheato im growing wont get stuck into the pumps.

[Two Bit Scooter]

So you think I should have the drop into the fuge and put the bulkhead between the second and return section? (swap the location of the bulkhead for teeth and visa versa)

Yes, I think the best thing you could do is to put baffles in the return side like this:

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/30354b561c26ab188.jpg

but a bulkhead (or just a hole) would be better than teeth at the top.

[acbaldwin]

Can you show me a picture of what you mean with "dual drain herbie"?

I wanted to separate the fuge and return so the cheato im growing wont get stuck into the pumps.


Here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)'s the Herbie thread on it. Not very easy to visualize based on his description.
Basically, noise and microbubbles happen when air is allowed to go down the drain, even with a durso standpipe. The idea is to allow the tank to ONLY have water go down the drain.
Here's my crummy pic on it:
http://imgur.com/AmjJR.gif (http://imgur.com/AmjJR.gif)
Only downside is that you need two holes in the tank, one for each drain.
Every tank I've seen in a while has been louder than mine with this setup.

If the only concern on separating the section is to keep chaeto/snails out, I suggest having the grating (or a couple of holes with mesh guards) halfway down the tank, well under the waterline but above the sand.

[Two Bit Scooter]

Go MS paint! That's not crummy, it's actually about the easiest to understand diagram on Herbie I've ever seen. Not bad.

[eugreef]

Yes, I think the best thing you could do is to put baffles in the return side like this:

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/30354b561c26ab188.jpg

but a bulkhead (or just a hole) would be better than teeth at the top.

Have an under over to the return section? I always thought it was best to take water off the top to eliminate protein/nutrient rich accumulation on the top surface of the water. Is this not true?

[Two Bit Scooter]

I always thought it was best to take water off the top to eliminate protein/nutrient rich accumulation on the top surface of the water. Is this not true?

Maybe for the main tank, but not the sump. Especially for the return section it will not make a difference.

[acbaldwin]

Go MS paint! That's not crummy, it's actually about the easiest to understand diagram on Herbie I've ever seen. Not bad.

Pff that's PS CS3! I had a helluva time finding a good herbie diagram so count that as my contribution to society.

[acbaldwin]

Have an under over to the return section? I always thought it was best to take water off the top to eliminate protein/nutrient rich accumulation on the top surface of the water. Is this not true?

What Scott said... The surface skimming is already happening on your overflow compartment in the display tank.

[eugreef]

Man you guys have given me some really great advice and info. I cant thank you enough. here is a compilation of everything:

http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/imagehosting/63404b5697ba1b10e.bmp

This is what i've come up with as a semi final design. Flow goes counterclockwise the first section(back left) will be the skimmer section. Ive made it large enough to fit a tunze as my future skimmer upgrade. The front long section will be for the fuge. the back right is the return section (water will enter via bulkhead). Ill be using a eheim 1262 as a return pump. the other pump is a rio1700 for my chiller. One change I am considering is taking out the bulkhead and putting in an under over baffle to the return.

[acbaldwin]

Looks good. I'd add one more bulkhead on the return section as a failsafe.