Bulk Reef Supply Two Part Kit

[h20poloman]

Having been in the hobby for a decent amount of time now and having owned quite a bit of equipment including calcium reactors, I have come to terms with my laziness as a hobbyist. Being fairly technically challenged when it comes to C02 regulators, reactors, etc, but still enjoying having some corals that require higher maintained parameters I decided to give Bulk Reef Supply's two part kit a shot. Having dealt with BRS before, I know they are a good online retailer for solid products at competitive prices. For anyone that has manually dosed 2 part solutions whether it be B-Ionic, Warner Marine Calmax,etc., you know that the cost can be fairly expensive when buying 1 gallon juggs. Also, application wise the instructions on those products is limited when deciding how much you should use on a daily basis. BRS has included many informative videos and calculators on their website to help explain how to use the product and come up with the correct amount to dose daily. For $50, I am super pleased with this product, my params have been staying in great shape (when I test :rolleyes:) and the amount of product you get in the starter kit should last me for probably 6 months from what I can tell so far and it includes Magnesium where the other 2 parts are strictly calcium and alkalinity. Overall, a happy customer.

Here is the link to the 2 part starter kit.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/calcium-alkalinity-magnesium/two-part-calcium-and-alkalinity-solution/two-part-starter-kit-1.html

[mrsmithers]

Yeah, I have had nothing but good things to say about BRS. I have been using there two part for almost a year with great results.

[goody]

Thanks for that write up, Marlin. I'll have to give this a try on the next BRS group buy.

[spacewelder]

I have been using for over 2 years and find it to be a great product. It is really easy to keep your params good. Takes about 2-3 weks and then you will have what you need everyday. I have actually gone to everyother day dosing. It is working well. Great product they have and online instructions are great.

[goody]

I started using this product about two months ago. I really like it, but wanted to know if anybody is using it with some dosing pumps. I'd like to make it a little less work. I did make some diy drip lines with IV lines, to keep up with dosing while away on vacation, but for some reason, even after testing, my diy drip lines didn't work.

[seesquared]

I started using this product about two months ago. I really like it, but wanted to know if anybody is using it with some dosing pumps. I'd like to make it a little less work. I did make some diy drip lines with IV lines, to keep up with dosing while away on vacation, but for some reason, even after testing, my diy drip lines didn't work.

I have been using their products for 4 months and have also been using the dosing pumps as well. well worth the money. i only have to feed my fish each day instead of measuing out the cups and dosing all the time. plus it drips on and off throughout the day so it doesn't spike the levels. I love how easy it was to set up with a digital timer and once i got my levels dialed in i was good to go, all i do is test once in a while and add a few minutes if my levels are a bit low. now i have become lazy to where i don't want to take the time to refill the bottles...hahaha.. it only takes about ten minutes to mix and fill up the jugs. overall this has been a great product and the ease of use is great! I highly recomend the products and their customer service is great. I just got a RODI unit from them and love how easy it was to set up and the videos they have on their site are a great tool because i didn't know what i was doing.

[Bio-Nut]

I have been using their product since they first opened their website and sold it (~5years)! Infact I still have the same materials from that original purchase. Goes to show how long they last. Best way to suppliment Magnesium in concentrated form. If I remember right I paid $70 for the two part kit with the Magnesium shipped. That is better than any two part on the market. Plus everything comes a dry chemicals so you are not paying to ship water.

[goody]

First time using it and have almost gone through the first jugs of Ca and Alk. The directions say to then add the Mg mix, but if my Mg is reading 1350, why would I add it?

[Bio-Nut]

Using these product allows you to make intellectual deductions for yourself. If you are full do you eat another cheeseburger? If you understand the chemistry of your tank then you are probably precipitating out the calcium by dosing the alk or vice-versa. Do a little at a time. I hate to be so brash with the analogies but it is the easiest way to get it to make since. If you want I can explain the best way to do the dosing and understand the chemistry involved. All the levels in your tank affect the others and once they are in harmony then it is easy to maintain and it actually teaches you something about what is going on in your tank.

[maus42]

You mentioned it adds Mag. too, that actually kind of scares me when it comes to SPS. Depending on the salt you use or the scripps you pickup, each will have its own base amount of magnesium and in the case of scripps might fluctuate (although I haven't seen it fluctuate once).

Point is I can see multiple scenarios where either the mag. level may become to high to or too low over time. As such you'll still have to keep testing for it anyways and adding more or even worse, trying to take some out!

[maus42]

Using these product allows you to make intellectual deductions for yourself. If you are full do you eat another cheeseburger? If you understand the chemistry of your tank then you are probably precipitating out the calcium by dosing the alk or vice-versa. Do a little at a time. I hate to be so brash with the analogies but it is the easiest way to get it to make since. If you want I can explain the best way to do the dosing and understand the chemistry involved. All the levels in your tank affect the others and once they are in harmony then it is easy to maintain and it actually teaches you something about what is going on in your tank.

You wouldn't happen to know of any books or even better, online articles that directly but simply explains the chemistry in a way that makes sense. Unfortunately I've never had the chance to sit down with someone who really understood the magic going on in the water in a face to face or at least over the phone fashion either. I've just kind of pieced things together over time but still don't have the whole picture. And I can tune a ca. reactor but that's from trial and error instead of understanding what im doing by twisting certain nobs.

[A.M.S.]

you can try this article.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm
It's more an explanation of how to fix calcium levels, it does have some good explanations, and the links at the bottom cover even more. There was another good avancedaquarist article about calcium and alk but I can't remember where it is.

[SoCalBoo]

I remember reading an article by Fenner, probably on the wetwebmedia website, that was good, concise and not techno-speak. The relationship between kh/gh/alkalinity/carbonate hardness/etc., can be difficult to get a grasp on, but it made sense and still does a few years after reading it.

[Sundiego]

BRS is great. I have been using their products for 3 years!!!

[Bio-Nut]

For anyone who would like a good source of info proof read by many biochemist, that you ten year old could understand send me your email and I will hook it up! or if any one would like to show me how to make a word doc accessable here I will post it for all to see!

Ian



You wouldn't happen to know of any books or even better, online articles that directly but simply explains the chemistry in a way that makes sense. Unfortunately I've never had the chance to sit down with someone who really understood the magic going on in the water in a face to face or at least over the phone fashion either. I've just kind of pieced things together over time but still don't have the whole picture. And I can tune a ca. reactor but that's from trial and error instead of understanding what im doing by twisting certain nobs.

[laffingcrow]

I think you can just do a cut a paste from the word doc directly into this... I'm interested only cause I'm getting ready to buy more 2 part and If I don't have to by mag. even better.
thanks Ian,
Brian

[laffingcrow]

While this is not the whole document as it covers the nitrogen cycle, Photosynthesis, and the Refugium as well as the info below for Calcium, Alkylinity, Magnesium, and Salinity.
... also the two diagrams associated with this part did not paste here; I'll see what I can do about getting the diagrams manipulated and edit the post later... this is a really well written document that is easier than most to understand.
See Ian's earlier post about sending him your e-mail for the whole document.


REEF CHEMISTRY FOR ANYONE By Ian Galyan
Calcium [Ca 2+]
A positive Ion that binds to negative Ions like: Carbonate [CO32-] and Phosphate [PO42-]. Calcium binding to carbonate is the basis of coral growth when it is done by the coral itself. And when Calcium is bound to Phosphate it hinders coral growth by rendering it unusable for coral uptake. Calcium levels: acceptable range is 380-420ppm give or take.
High Calcium: when you have high calcium you actually reduce the level of the Alkalinity. If you think of it as a sea-saw if one side is up the other is down. You want to keep them in harmony to do this you need to dose small amounts of one until the desired level is reached and then dose the other to bring it up.
Reaction: Ca2+ + CO32-  CaCO3
(Calcium) (Carbonate/ Alkali) (Calcium Carbonate)
Low Calcium: as a product of the growth in your tank you will see a reduction in Calcium as a function of the growth of your corals, inverts, and live rock (Coralline Algae). As this occurs the tank tries to stabilize this by allowing the sand, corals, inverts, and live rock in the tank to dissolve (opposite of above reaction) resulting in excess carbonate as time goes on and the free calcium is used.
Reaction: Ca2+ + CO32-  CaCO3
Alkalinity
Alkalinity is the measure of Carbonate hardness, amount of Carbonate, serves as a pH stabilizer for your reef tank. So when your CO32- levels become low it is easier for the tank to deviate from the desired pH of 8.2 .Alkalinity levels: desired is between 8-10 dKh.
High alkalinity: If the level of alkalinity increases to above 10dKh then you will begin to precipitate out free Calcium (Ca2+) which can lead to a lower level of usable calcium for you corals. If this seems counterintuitive, think of it this way? You want the calcium and the carbonate to bind as a result of the corals metabolic growth (done by the coral) not done by you in the tank water.
Even better analogy: say you want to eat a cheeseburger, but to eat it you have to put the patty (calcium) in between the two pieces of bread (carbonate) yourself, and then it is ready to eat. But if someone makes it for you and puts a wrapper (bound calcium carbonate) on it, you can not eat it with out removing the wrapper which is permanently incasing the cheeseburger.
Low Alkalinity: can lead to big movement in your pH as your tank goes from day to night in the Photosynthesis/respiration cycle. It also allows build up of positively charged ions in your tank resulting in the dissolving of CaCO3 from sand, coral structure and inverts, to supply the need of [CO32-] in the water column.
Magnesium
Magnesium serves the purpose of enabling free calcium uptake.

When looking at the diagram above you have three components calcium, magnesium and phosphate, for the purpose of explaining the use of Magnesium we will only look at these three components demonstrating magnesium’s most important use.
If you think of each component as a magnet floating in air, one having a negative 2 charge and two with a positive 2 charge; the two gray particles are attracted to white particle but one is larger (Magnesium) than the other (Calcium) and it will bind faster to the phosphate leaving free calcium for uptake by corals. But if the Magnesium level is too low calcium will bind phosphate leaving it unable to be taken in by the coral for skeletal growth.

Therefore; if the levels of Magnesium are kept between 1250-1400ppm you will have four times the amount magnesium to calcium, ensuring that magnesium will bond to phosphate. Phosphate is the leading source of algae out breaks, so the first step to reducing algae growth is to increase the Magnesium level along with good water changes with mixed salt.

Salinity
“Salinity” also “Specific Gravity,” is the measure of dissolved salts in the water. It is perhaps the one factor that dictates whether or not everything is stable. The ideal salinity for a reef system with a decent population of stony corals is 1.026. Where in a tank with a majority of soft corals you can maintain it at 1.022-1.025 and it is suggested that Fish only systems are kept at or close to 1.017. The higher and lower salinity conditions have there reasoning, but first let me explain a few terms in order to bring you up to speed.
Ionic Strength: it is a measure of salinity in itself, but the principle is that the more salt that is added to a container of water the more it prevents other dissolved solids such as Magnesium, chlorine, calcium, carbonate and other trace element from coming in contact with each and precipitating out of the mixture.
Of course I am going to give you a cheesy analogy to explain this concept because obviously not everyone is a biochemist.

The above picture will help to explain the analogy further. Imagine that the county fair just opened and you want to meet your friend there. You both agree that you will meet inside the entrance at 5:00pm. When you get there you see that the fair just opened and not to many people are there, which makes it easy to find your friend right away. So two days later you decide that you want to meet another friend at the fair, same time, same place, but when you get there you see that the fair is really busy and there are hundreds of people standing just inside the entrance. This make it nearly impossible for you to find your friend. Much like the added people at the fair adding salt to a solution will increase the power of keeping Ions from finding their compliment and percipitating out of solution as unusable compounds. Keeping things dissolved. This helps in explaining why we keep our tanks at various salinities.
Hypotonic (under normal): 1.017 Fish only systems use lower salinity because crustations can not live in these conditions and since ich and other parasites are crustations this prevents the fish form contracting the parasites.
Hypertonic (over normal): 1.026 Reef systems require various levels of elements like Magnesium, calcium, carbonate, strontium, Iron, chlorine, sulfate and so on, but if we do not have a higher level of ionic strength we would percipitate out all of them leaving nothing for the corals to grow with.

[467echo]

very good article, this should be a sticky somewhere!

[Bio-Nut]

I will email the article to anyone who wants to have a hard copy of it! The diagrams really make it easier to understand for those who are visual like myself!

JUST PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS!

Ian

[h20poloman]

Thinking about adding some automated dosers, anyone use either the drews dosers or the BRS ones that can provide some feedback? Also, can you control them with a RKL or RKE?