Distal bicep tendon

[WanaLeime]

Anyone ever tear their tendon (bicep to forearm) and get surgery done on it?
Im scared.....any insights, tips, anything....... i've never been under the knife.:confused::eek:

-Dennis

[LotsaFishies]

oh geez... that sucks Dennis, sorry to hear that. How'd you manage to tear it?


Never had any big surgery before...sorry can't offer any personal insights / pearls of wisdom...

GL bro!

[WanaLeime]

freak accident.... thanks aways.......

[SuperDragon]

I've repaired quite a few back in the day.
If that was my arm I would get it fixed asap, espeically if it's your dominant arm. You'll lose up to 50% supination of your forearm and up to 1/3 flexion strength.
Not something to wait on especially in a young (<60 yrs old) and active induvidual. Soft tissues and muscles scar down very quickly within 2-3 weeks. At that point its very difficult to fix surgically and will require autogenous grafts or cadaveric grafts.
Scared yet? or lets wait longer.
The surgery is outpatient (in and out same day) not a big deal if your young and have no previous health issues.
Rehab will be your hardest venture because you don't want that muscle to stiffen up, scar down, and maintain strength and flexibility.
It's a simple bone anchor and tie your tendon to the anchor.
You have decisions to make soon if you want it done and discuss it with your physician/orthopedist and family not with non-medically educated people on forums.
Godspeed

[RussM]

I had major Achilles' tendon repair surgery a few years ago. I suspect you'll have physical therapy afterwards... diligently follow the PT regimen they set for you, both in the rehab/PT clinic and at home.

[WanaLeime]

that's what i hear, PT is key...

ever have problems with scar tissue? do you take meds for it?

[WanaLeime]

I've repaired quite a few back in the day.
If that was my arm I would get it fixed asap, espeically if it's your dominant arm. You'll lose up to 50% supination of your forearm and up to 1/3 flexion strength.
Not something to wait on especially in a young (<60 yrs old) and active induvidual. Soft tissues and muscles scar down very quickly within 2-3 weeks. At that point its very difficult to fix surgically and will require autogenous grafts or cadaveric grafts.
Scared yet? or lets wait longer.
The surgery is outpatient (in and out same day) not a big deal if your young and have no previous health issues.
Rehab will be your hardest venture because you don't want that muscle to stiffen up, scar down, and maintain strength and flexibility.
It's a simple bone anchor and tie your tendon to the anchor.
You have decisions to make soon if you want it done and discuss it with your physician/orthopedist and family not with non-medically educated people on forums.
Godspeed

spoke with 3 different doctors (orthopedist)...pretty much everything you said.
Just wondering if anybody had personal experience. Just a little scared you know....
thanks for the in-sight.

[RussM]

Don't worry too much... you'll be doing one-arm pushups as part of morning PT again in no time!:D

[SuperDragon]

spoke with 3 different doctors (orthopedist)...pretty much everything you said.
Just wondering if anybody had personal experience. Just a little scared you know....
thanks for the in-sight.

Don't worry, let the doctors, nurses, and medical staff do the worrying for you. Once you go into the hospital they are responsible for your health and well being from start to finish. It may not seem like that because people get tired from working and stressed from the hassles of the hospital. They will make sure your pain is controlled and you're confortable before you go home.

I have had 3 surgeries myself for various things at the age of 28 all within one year. Being a physician dosn't make it any better, but it's ok to be scared. You have to trust your physican and pick a person you feel comfortable doing your surgery since you saw three already. I'm sure the physican you choose will be able to answer all your questions. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions or challenge staff if something dosn't look or sound right. Make sure you have good family support because you'll have to learn to rely on them for awhile.
FYI: This isn't Grey's Anatomy or ER. Not that much drama or bad stuff ever happens.

[RussM]

that's what i hear, PT is key...

ever have problems with scar tissue? do you take meds for it?

Only when someone rams the back of my ankle with a luggage cart at the airport! The only med I took was ibuprofen as needed while healing and in rehab.

[SDFISHMAN]

Surgery isn't that bad bro. Take care of it before it gets worse..

[wallaceedward]

One of my Marines (Our command MOY) had that surgery done about 2 months ago. Something happened where the bone and the tendon grew together so they had to go back in to try to seperate the two...

Long story short, he's got very little "roll" movement in his dominant arm and since he can't carry a rifle any more they're med. seperating him....truly a shame.

[WanaLeime]

One of my Marines (Our command MOY) had that surgery done about 2 months ago. Something happened where the bone and the tendon grew together so they had to go back in to try to seperate the two...

Long story short, he's got very little "roll" movement in his dominant arm and since he can't carry a rifle any more they're med. seperating him....truly a shame.

If you don't mind me asking where did he get his surgery done? balboa?

That's one thing Im scared of...i have 13yrs in and I don't want to have to be medically discharged if something goes wrong.

TIA

[KT-150]

anyways...i still need help moving my tank sat. ;)

[coral diver]

Dennis!! I had worse getting under the knife is nothing to be scared about you are young and healthy you will recover fast and well

[iwantone]

Take superdragon's advice. He is on target. I deal with patient's with this all the time. If your old you leave it alone, young, and it's a bad tear...surgery. Which hospital and which doctor is the the most important factor.

[davocean]

I had this surgery 2yrs ago, freak accident, watched my bicep pop off and crawl up my arm, GNARLY!
Since then, I've had/ met 4 others w/ this, 3 did not do surgery, 1did.
Those 3 were older, and not in a profession that needs full arm strength, and they are fine, but as stated supination strength greatly diminshed(turning screwdriver, doorknob type movement).
Surgery actually takes longer to heal/recover, but totally worth it IMO.
PT is BIGGEST part of recovery.
I had an excellent doctor in Newport, Dr Cook.
There's another guy in encinitas, Dr Gelb.
I can talk more in detail if you want, and give you exp of all 5 of us that had this.
Good luck, it took me a year to feel good again, but I can tell you I do have FULL arm strength again.

[davocean]

By the way, I was 42 at time of accident, and didn't have surgery for 2mo after accident(Not intended and don't advise that, they almost couldn't reattach) you're younger and catching sooner so recovery should go faster/better for you.

[WanaLeime]

ALL - Thank you all the encouragement and advice.

Dave - that's the kinda of info I was looking to get of of this. Would you mind PMing me the info on those doctors? Thanks Bro....

-Dennis

[mazilla]

just make sure you write "operate on this arm" on the injured one before surgery, and "other arm" on the good one. I would hate for them to work on the wrong side...it happens all the time.

[davocean]

Maz, that's too funny, cause they did mark my arm w/ a marker for that very reason!
PM sent

[coral diver]

"Dennis" Note to self write in big bold letter with permanent Marker "GOOD ARM on good arm" and "OPERATE ON THIS ARM on the bad arm" then have everyone in SDR sign the cast :D

[mazilla]

yeah, they opearated on the wrong hand for my dads minor surgery. then they were nice enough to leave a fat piece of wire in there which had to be removed.

[davocean]

When mine happened I saw Dr Gelb in encinitas, who's one of the best for this, but Dr Cook could do surgery sooner, so I went w/ him.
I got jacked by a Dr Harriman in C-bad, who told me he couldn't see me for 2wks, and said time was not a factor(WRONG) and then refused to work on me or even see me since I had no insurance, even though I had cash to pay for surgery in full.
That set me back big time in seeing other Drs and fitting me into surgery schedule, which made more atrophy in tendon, not as much extension in connection, and ALOT longer/harder PT.
There will be no cast, more like a half cast/cradle wrapped in Ace so you can start PT as soon as possible, like 2wks.
And yes, they did drill through my bone and insert a type of "cotter pin" that anchors tendon.
My stud finder w/ metal detector reads the titanium in my arm!LOL

[coral diver]

Dave that's why every time i go to the metal detector it goes crazy :)

[SuperDragon]

Titanium has low reactivity (realatively inert), strong, lightweight, and non-magnetic. It won't go off at metal detectors unless you have lots of metal in there and stainless steel will go off. Nothing wrong with stainless steel either, very commonly used metal that is much stronger than titanium. Either one is perfectly fine.


"Dennis" Note to self write in big bold letter with permanent Marker "GOOD ARM on good arm" and "OPERATE ON THIS ARM on the bad arm" then have everyone in SDR sign the cast :D

Coral Diver's idea is a excellent idea that turns out to be a not so good idea. In surgery the nurses and doctor will do a "Time-Out" and triple the correct side in the operating room before surgery (chart and visually).

I almost messed up doing the wrong side one day because the patient decided to mark his own leg. I could not see my own markings. That throws the staff off their daily routine and that actually causes problems because they have to figure out who wrote what. The staff understands their markings and your markings will interfere, guaranteed.
That's why in surgery I trust no one, I question everything handed to me and the integrity of equipment I use because I am ultimately responsible.

There is a reason why I keep going at the doctor-patient relationship, it's very important.
I think it's nice to have the opinion of others about doctors, but I really feel you need to make the connection yourself with the doctor and choose. The doctor will be seeing you for at least one year from the date of surgery.

[SDFISHMAN]

It funny everytime I go threw metal detectors it goes off. I have to explain I have a bullet next to my brain. I have had 13 surgerys 5 when I was awake. Nothing to scary but it sucks waking up when its over.. Just make sure they put you to sleep. I woke up once during surgery..

[coral diver]

Titanium has low reactivity (realatively inert), strong, lightweight, and non-magnetic. It won't go off at metal detectors unless you have lots of metal in there and stainless steel will go off. Nothing wrong with stainless steel either, very commonly used metal that is much stronger than titanium. Either one is perfectly fine.



Coral Diver's idea is a excellent idea that turns out to be a not so good idea. In surgery the nurses and doctor will do a "Time-Out" and triple the correct side in the operating room before surgery (chart and visually).

I almost messed up doing the wrong side one day because the patient decided to mark his own leg. I could not see my own markings. That throws the staff off their daily routine and that actually causes problems because they have to figure out who wrote what. The staff understands their markings and your markings will interfere, guaranteed.
That's why in surgery I trust no one, I question everything handed to me and the integrity of equipment I use because I am ultimately responsible.

There is a reason why I keep going at the doctor-patient relationship, it's very important.
I think it's nice to have the opinion of others about doctors, but I really feel you need to make the connection yourself with the doctor and choose. The doctor will be seeing you for at least one year from the date of surgery.

Its a Joke

[davocean]

Airport detectors don't trigger on my hardware, but to my surprise my studfinder w/ metal detecting capabilities zero's right in on it.
They didn't put me to sleep for my surgery, but I was so whacked I might as well have been.
I remember counting back from 10, probably got to 7, and next memory was a gorgeous nurse calling my name, and laughing saying "OMG, you said THEE funniest things under anesthesia"
She never would repeat what I said, but from her looks I'm sure I must have been trying to throw my stuff at her during surgery!LOL
Semi strong pain was about 8hrs after surgery, but you'll have good meds.
After that as long as elevated no prob, never even bothered to PU vicodin perscription they gave me.
You'll be fine.
When I did my swap 10mo ago my landlord told me the day after I filled my tank they were moving electric panel to where my tank was.
I drained, but even w/out water w/ all the sand and rock I'm sure it's about 400lbs, and I dragged that across my living room by myself.
As I did it, I was thinking, if this isn't a true test of arm/tendon strength, I don't know what is!LOL
All is well now.

[coral diver]

I have stainless studs and some wire and the 2 ball joints both knees sound like car part due to a motorcycle accident during my mid 20's

[bluielover]

read a story about this once, it was about a body builder who was roiding and his bicep got to strong/ big for his tendons. one day one he was curling, one snapped. he said it sounded like a rubber band snapping. who knows if it was true??

wish you the best of luck.....:)

[davocean]

I'm sure it was true, my doc said that was the most common reason for this injury, the muscle will build, but not the tendon, or at least not strong enough to keep up w/ muscle growth.
And yeah, it makes a big pop, like a giant rubber band breaking.
I heard it, and looked at it watching my bicep crawl up my arm twitching and convulsing, looked like a small animal forcing it's way up to my shoulder under the skin, creepy.

[coral diver]

And the other thing its like, I'm a walking Barometer when its about to rain it hurt like H{{l

[iwantone]

There is a non-surgical repair called prolotherapy. It has been documented and in the journals to work for achilles repair so it should work for biceps. Look it up. It is pretty cool stuff. I plan on doing it in my practice in the future.

[davocean]

We're talking about a complete rupture, my tendon was about 8" away from connection point.
That may work for a tear, but a complete disconnect?

[WanaLeime]

I read about that too. I have to agree Davocean, I have a complete disconnect.

I didn't hear any "pop" it didn't even really hurt at first...it was just uncomfortable, I actually thought it was a charlie horse, Until I check it out in the mirror...My bicep was half way up my arm!!!

how do you gain tendon strength? I consider myself to have decent sized arms (bicep, forearm) No stick arms here... I never really thought about working out my tendons...

[WanaLeime]

Airport detectors don't trigger on my hardware, but to my surprise my studfinder w/ metal detecting capabilities zero's right in on it.
They didn't put me to sleep for my surgery, but I was so whacked I might as well have been.
I remember counting back from 10, probably got to 7, and next memory was a gorgeous nurse calling my name, and laughing saying "OMG, you said THEE funniest things under anesthesia"
She never would repeat what I said, but from her looks I'm sure I must have been trying to throw my stuff at her during surgery!LOL
Semi strong pain was about 8hrs after surgery, but you'll have good meds.
After that as long as elevated no prob, never even bothered to PU vicodin perscription they gave me.
You'll be fine.
When I did my swap 10mo ago my landlord told me the day after I filled my tank they were moving electric panel to where my tank was.
I drained, but even w/out water w/ all the sand and rock I'm sure it's about 400lbs, and I dragged that across my living room by myself.
As I did it, I was thinking, if this isn't a true test of arm/tendon strength, I don't know what is!LOL
All is well now.


LOL...too funny, i wonder what I'll say. will the staff allow a video camera during the procedure? I wouldn't mind watching them work on me...

So I finally gathered some courage to call and schedule my surgery....answering machine....hahhaha now I gotta do it all over again :runaway:

[davocean]

Mine was similar, like a charlie horse, not much pain.
I was actually using my arm for work like a week later, but it was weird, I'd feel strong and forget for a second, then do something at a different angle, and weak like a kitten.
A friend suggested the video of surgery, but this was my first real surgery, and I was incredibly freaked out, and just wanted over with.
I'm amazed the dr could reach my tendon at my shoulder w/ such a small incision, not quite 2".
He said he reached up, used one finger to loop through tendon, and pulled as hard as he could for about an hour and a half to get close to where it used to be.
Usually he said it only takes about half an hour, but so much atrophy for waiting so long, which resulted in collateral nerve damage.
I couldn't feel my forearm for months after, and wondered if feeling would ever come back, it did eventually.
Get on it, longer you wait, longer to recover.

[SuperDragon]

will the staff allow a video camera during the procedure? I wouldn't mind watching them work on me...


Usually no video cameras in the OR. You can try asking the doctor he may take pictures for you. It's not sterile either to bring in something like that from outside. The last thing you want is a infection -> scarring, a non-functional arm, then more surgery. Thrills are best left outside and too liability and things at stake on video.

[WanaLeime]

nah...i was just kidding about video thing....just trying to live'n things up....

[mazilla]

bicep tears are common in bodybuilding/powerlifting, steroids have little/nothing to do with it. Human error is the number one cause.

[davocean]

That's correct on a bicep tear, but this is actually the tendon anchor torn off.
Both Drs I saw, and pretty much every online info I saw over the month of research I did b4 surgery did say steroid use was the biggest # of these cases, rest were freak accidents, falling off boat/trying to catch yourself, that kinda thing.
I was in good shape when I did mine, and DRs kept suggesting I had to change my workout habits, hinting they thought I used roids.

[WanaLeime]

no roids for me....

[iwantone]

There is an article in the new england journal of medicine of a complete achilles rupture fixed with prolotherapy. I would do surgery in your case, but its a good read. I've only seen biceps tears in young people who do steroids and very old people. Then again, there is always exceptions.

[SuperDragon]

There is an article in the new england journal of medicine of a complete achilles rupture fixed with prolotherapy. I would do surgery in your case, but its a good read. I've only seen biceps tears in young people who do steroids and very old people. Then again, there is always exceptions.

Being my specialty
Achilles ruptures are different... current literature in podiatric and orthopedic foot and ankle journals suggest that ruptures are more related to genetics than any other factor due to a degeneration at the "watershed" area proximal to the area of insertion. More than other factors like NSAIDS (anti-inflammatories), steroids, and certain antibiotics like Cipro.
Chances of rupturing the other side is very high in the foot and ankle.

In the case of the biceps I highly doubt it's relationship to steroids in your case, could likely be genetics, always a possibility for ipsilateral rupture (other arm), but I haven't seen it. There was nothing you could have done to prevent it or cause it if your healthy and young. It was a matter of time.

[WanaLeime]

is there anyway to strengthen your tendons?

[davocean]

I don't think you can actually strengthen so much, as maintain flexability.
No roids, should be no worries.
That's the deal w/ the roids, building muscle, but tendon doesn't really increase strength.
I take glucosamine w/ chondroiten which helps tendon/joints, and good stretching w/ regular excercise, really best you can do.
You're young, should be no worry.
My Drs did say genetics did play part sometimes, but usuall there was some sort of trama aiding in tear.
In my case I got hit real hard by my surfboard inner elbow.
It didn't tear then, but when I got home and lifted a table at weird angle, anchor kinda just peeled off.
Table wasn't even heavy, and I hang heavy doors all the time.
Other friends had something heavy jerk arm hard, one guy stuck his hand in a wave to stall for barrel and it tore.
Freak accidents all.

[temec_lover]

operations are better then they seem... they know what their doing... last ear (when i was 13) i had an operation.... scared ****less... and im going under the knife again on monday..... eek! but its really not as bad as it seems