The First Amendment

[mazilla]

"The principle of free thought is not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought we hate." - US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in United States v. Schwimmer (1929).


Since the fundamental law of this great country of ours seems to be under fire here at SDREEFS, i thought a few of you could use a refresher course on the first amendment. ENJOY.

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”



“Censorship reflects a society’s lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime . . . .” — Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, dissenting Ginzberg v. United States, 383 U.S. 463 (1966)


“The First Amendment was designed to protect offensive speech, because nobody ever tries to ban the other kind”


“Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacophony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects.”
Judge Dalzell


"We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still." ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859


"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~Tommy Smothers


I think you all get the point.

[Techknowledgy]

Thanks Maz,

We all needed this. In these wild political times, it is hard to remember this when everyone up to the top is saying if we agree we are good upstanding Americans, and if we diagree we are with the terrorists/commies/socialists/ fill in the blank. The right to disagree is the fundamental one.

[mazilla]

my pleasure, let us not forget, the first Amendment applies to non-political matters as well. It(first Amendment) applies to all aspects of life, at all times; be they political or a simple disagreement on the internet.

[Fine Fins]

Great write-up on our rights and I'm strongly in favor of people using those rights. My question is does our freedom of speech have anything to do with a private site like SD Reefs and did you mean this because of the last thread about censorship on this site? The constitution freedom of speech is our protection against the federal govt censorship and when the supreme court acts it is not nor has it ever been intented to control what one citizen says to another.

[Yolo]

One comment I have is that regardless of freedoms or civility, people seem to lose control when they hide behind usernames on the internet. Everyone gets real loose when they are XMan_456. Worst recourse is they get their account deleted, create a new hotmail account, and come back as XMan_457

For those very reasons, Our Fishing Club is members only and our usernames are your first real name. No one makes a fool of themselves because we will cut them out of any deals or opportunites.

Being here is a priviledge not a right.

Don't confuse rights with showing a bit of class or having an education.

m

[Technoviking]

You either did not see this or decided to ignore this so I will post it again...

You want to get stupid with it Maz? Allow me...

Lets say you are free to say whatever you want here (which is not the case), and you go and use your first ammendment right to physically threaten another member of this board (:rolleyes:). That is illegal. Can you figure out why? People who think that the first ammendment gives them free reign to say whatever they want are just plain ignorant. That ammendment only has affect when you do not infringe upon the rights of others. So if you really want to get technical, what you did awhile ago was illegal.

PS If you really want to test it, go ahead and say whatever you want, one of the mods or I will ban you. You call your lawyer and tell him the story and see how long it is until he stops laughing :).

[Techknowledgy]

I agree with you on principle Mike, but it does become a bit more of a right when we pay for membership. And, as they say, membership has its privileges. There is never, ever any excuse for being juvenile or a butthead on the boards, and you are right, people do hide behind the keyboard. With that said, I would not be opposed to posting by members only, and let anyone read. No skin in the game for them...... but we have been down this road before. People tend to take the position that is the best for them and their situation.

[Technoviking]

Roland you do not become above the rules when you sign up for a Premium Membership. All the perks are explained to you. We are not going to shut down posting by non-Premies because you think you are better than them because of $33.

[loose-electron]

Being here is a priviledge not a right.

Don't confuse rights with showing a bit of class or having an education.

m

Mike -
Nicely stated.

Courtesy and respect need to come first everyone. Avoiding the topics of "religion sex & politics" in mixed groups tends to keep harmony.

If you want free speech on any of those, you need to select the appropriate place to go. Church, political rallies, or the appropriate internet porn site would fit.

As it is, I am out of a sailing group because the organizer is a bigot, and put me on his mailing list for hate topics that included - women, people of different ethnic groups, and "inferior religion" and pushing his political views as well --- (his hate mail stuff, not mine) -- I started getting all that stuff and went "what the...???" -
:hideeyes: :hideeyes: :hideeyes:
Got to exercise some common sense and group courtesy mixed in with just waving the "free speech" flag.

Jerry

[Techknowledgy]

I never said I become "above the rules." You obviously did not read my post carefully..... and I never said I was better than anyone. I belong (belong- read pay my membership and my dues- including this one and SDMAS) to many organizations, and most of them require membership to fully participate. This is not at all unusual either in the private or professional world. Try getting into the San Diego Yacht Club and using the facilities without a membership card. .... then you see how long it takes until they stop laughing.

[Fine Fins]

Loose Electron,

Good summary of the truth take it to the right board!!! That said admins must decide what is right for the site. It would be ashame to limit all conversations to fish only. The admins make that determination live by it or go somewhere else.
Yolo, I have my name clearly posted on my email for all to see, hehe, I like the call sign:).

[SDguy]

Just to be clear in case anyone gets confused my some of the posts here, we do not move, mod, delete, etc. based on premium membership or not.

[Yolo]

(this is a loud voice, deep, from above but just below the clouds)

"PS If you really want to test it, go ahead and say whatever you want, one of the mods or I will ban you. You call your lawyer and tell him the story and see how long it is until he stops laughing ."

Joe - as a Mod you have to set an example. Don't climb into the mud pit with anyone. Sometimes its a fine command of language to say nothing.

You really should not publically call people out like that, IMHO, Use a PM. Nothing can be achieved of challenging someone. Your best approach is to remain civil at all times no matter how emotional you are or passonate you become. It is a learned skill.

You are tasked with oversight and representation of over a thousand people, don't focus on one. If you have a conflict of interest or specifically don't like one particular person, you should consider stepping away and delegating to another mod, that way you can't be accused of being personal. Rules are made to keep honest people honest, anyone who wants to be uncivil are only doing so for a reaction.....and it seems to be working.

m

[MichaelRyanSD]

OMG....Give the I pay X amount of dollars a year argument a rest...we pay 33$ a year to get more inbox/outbox space...private forums...and a cool avatar...thats it... If anyone feels that since they pay this amount and are somehow entitled to anything more then that..then you are plan wrong...

And frankly, the idea of saying that only payed members get to post is abdsurd...I'd really hate to see how dead this site would be with that sort of implementation....your always talking about equality and fairnesss, but how fair is that your rich and can afford 33$ a year, but the poor starving college kid can't..and somehow from this, your opinion is more valid then his or her..


NEXT ISSUE

Now..to this whole 1st amendment thing....I am as far conservative as the came...if you could imagine the far right and where that is...I'm past that.

But to sit here and invoke your first amendment rights on a PRIVATELY OWNED FORUM is mute, I could not got into a NAACP meeting and shout N!GGR and not face some sort of ramifications....your entitle to your first amendment right in so much that what you say/ do dose not cause distress or put people under duress.

I am an American and driving here is a privilege...not a right...
Just like your an American..and posting here is a privilege, not a right

Now I must admit that I am speaking candidly here and did not get to actually read what was posted..or rather what was deleted...and I am basing on my assumptions from the aftermath that follows...

Also, I may not know much about reefing, but I am finish up my degree in Political Science Specializing in Constitutional Law....

BUT ULTIMATELY...
Whether you believe it or not...it is your responsibility as an American, to usurp and overthrow those who suppress you....I would suggest that you create your own forums and make the rules accordingly.....

Ultimately though....this site is a "club" and with a "club" comes rules, you either abide by them or start your own, no matter how unfair or harsh those rules may be....

[Technoviking]

Yeah Mike your right.
:runaway:

[Fine Fins]

I'm so in the middle it is hard to say were that middle is. I agree with what the far far right says. Rights and privaliges are you against govt... this is a private site. IMG[porn pic]//just.kidding

[TaxGuru44]

*after Mike's speech*
(crowd slowly stands up) clap.................clap................clap..... .....clap.......clap.....clap....clap..clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap..whooooooooo.

:ohsnap:

[coral diver]

I always follow the rule the my FATHER showed my;
To be a good leader one must be a good follower;
And wisdome is thing you learn as you grow old and learn from the good and bad experienses.

[SDFISHMAN]

Mike for President...

[fishfinger]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


I don't see as how this has any bearing whatever on SD reefs. The above statements talks about congress and petitioning the gov. SDreefs like many private clubs can make it's own rules. Like the Boy scouts only allowing Boys or the Girl scouts only having girls. Or the *** and Lesbian groups only allowing like kinds as they are. Or a motorcycle club saying you must own or race a certain type of bike to be a part of their club. Or a reef club on line saying you can't act like a bunch of animals and call each other foul names etc.......

[MichaelRyanSD]

which mike you talking about?

[swissfish]

which mike you talking about?


Dude you are refered to as "MichaelRyan" or "Kneepad Man" :D

[Techknowledgy]

Interesting discourse on if sdreefs is a public place. The courts heavily defend free speech in places like parks etc. Since this space is public, in that anyone can join, with no restrictions, and post whatever they like, it would seem that it too is a public place. The jury is still out as to how deep all of this goes. Might not be a bad idea if we had a more "public" acceptable use policy document. I remember not to long ago Peter was looking for one of these.

[acbaldwin]

I like to refer to him as "El Diablo de los Kneepads"

[loose-electron]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States

it makes for an informative read...
-Jerry

[nalbar]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


I don't see as how this has any bearing whatever on SD reefs.


Your right fishfinger, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with SDReefs.

The ones that need a refresher course in the Constitution are those who think it DOES have something to do with SDReefs.

I will say it again;

Right now all of us are as good as standing in Moore's living room.

Would you let me come to YOUR living room and shout what I wanted at your kids? Of course not.

Some of you seem to think this is a 'strict' site. It is not. RC is 'strict', but it is by no means the 'strictest' I belong to. You want 'strict'? Try NASIOC.com. I see arguements on RC all the time. No arguements are allowed on NASIOC. No 'you are a ----' is allowed. No critisizm is allowed. No profane avatars allowed, so you never see cellulite riddled a$$'s shoved in your face. You get no warnings on misbehavour. You get banned, period.

And what do both RC and NASIOC have in common? They are both HUGELY popular and successful forums. People who go there know what they will get. And they appriciate the consistancy.

I get a kick out of the abuse Tech gets. As though Tech and the rest of what passes for 'mods' here are tough and mean. Complaints about 'rude' PM's from mods! LOL! If you get a critical PM from a mod you don't deserve politeness.

The problem here is not excessive toughness from mods, it is that they are not tough ENOUGH. And they don't post enough, which allows people to think they are not paying attention.

On day two of this site I warned Moore what problems he was going to have in a conversation we had at AW. He ignored it, insisting that less moderation was better. I told him that as people got to know each other in person, cliques would form, and outsiders would get treated poorly while 'insiders' would run wild. And any mods would be afraid to go after those they know. This all would be worse because people are here because they are cheap, and want steals. So they will remain silent to not lose customers, or deals. Then when the time came to get control he would have trouble, because people will not adjust to stricter times.

Some you cannot accept that it is not about YOU. The rules of a site are not about those people who are there NOW. They are about visitors that will stay and become future members. If those visitors come on for a first visit and see naked avatars, they do NOT come back. Porn avatars are a sure sign of a poorly run site, a site out of control. Try to grasp that. It is NOT ABOUT YOU! It is about the sites future.

Keeping a reef is a difficult endevour, requiring several different skills. But one thing you MUST have to keep a reef is stability. If you do not have a stable life style you cannot keep a reef. One of the signs of stability is being able to be mature in your postings and your behavour. The chances are those who don't have those attributes will eventually move on, because instabilty in behavour is a sure sign of failure. Why in the world should Moore and his surrogate Tech risk future members so people who will probably move on can have their way?

These are difficult concepts for most people to grasp, particularly unstable personality types. One of the ironic things about the internet is that the some of the people who post on it do not understand the basic reasons for its success. They just don't get it.

At successful sites the moderators kick those people to the curb. And don't care one wit whether they are liked.



nalbar

[MichaelRyanSD]

No critisizm is allowed. No profane avatars allowed, so you never see cellulite riddled a$$'s shoved in your face.


nalbar

Wow...someone isn't going to be happy with this....

[acbaldwin]

I would suggest that a better definition of "public" would be that it is supported or was created largely by tax dollars. I believe SDR (and other BBs) is private and welcome to hold whatever rules it chooses. As with any business, members/clients will determine if the business is successful.

[Trickman2]

Hi everyone, I have been on this board along time....why are we all acting up over a little bit of control. It just seems to me the people that are screaming are the ones that want to run down the streets naked and act out of line. Honestly it just seems like we have lost track of what this site should be about. Unfortunately, without someone doing some moderation there is always at least one village idiot who will push the envelope. Mazilla are you trying to be this guy? Why not just enjoy the site and try to keep things respectful. I have not seen anything horrible that the mods have done or edited. Its not like reefcentral where they are complete Nazi's on the threads.

[temec_lover]

may i might add.. the "rights are not shed at the schoolhouse gate" applies here

[Techknowledgy]

I would suggest that a better definition of "public" would be that it is supported or was created largely by tax dollars. I believe SDR (and other BBs) is private and welcome to hold whatever rules it chooses. As with any business, members/clients will determine if the business is successful.

That is why it is interesting, and why I said that. The Supreme Court, whose job it is to determine if something is Constitutional, has determined that the Internet, as a whole, is a public place. There is still a lot of grey area here.
Google
"Free speech in public forums BLOGS" Some interesting stuff......... and yes, the fish in my avitar are naked....... but I have no desire to run anywhere in that or a similar condition.

[barometer]

Nice Terry,

Live sands through the box of glass, so are the Days of SDReefs :p

[nalbar]

Good Lord.

I will explain it slowly.

The 1st amendment only applies to GOVERNMENT interference in public speech. The internet is public in the sense that the GOVERNMENT cannot interfere with what is said there.

But this is a PRIVATE site, meaning it is OWNED by an individual, in the same way a house is owned.

There is no grey area. The GOVERNMENT cannot interfere in what is posted here, but Moore can do with his PROPERTY what he pleases.

And Temec? If you have so many rights at school how come the GOVERNMENT can search your lockers without a warrant?

The present SCOTUS has ruled that students up through high school have only limited rights, which by the way, do NOT include free speech. Tell the truth, what would happen if you stood up and told a teacher he was full of *****. Or better yet, just sat there and repeatedly gave him the finger, which the SCOTUS has ruled is a type of free speech?

You would be gone.



nalbar

[Fine Fins]

Funny how I see far more understanding that we need Mods to control this site and little from the other side. We seem for the most part LIB, CON, or MID all on the same page. So why are we letting a few make 3 pages of show how we agree. As for control I have seen very little problems on this site but we all know no matter how hard we try someone will show some porn, write #@#$#, threaten, MOD's will take care of it and delete-it no matter what someone thinks.

[Techknowledgy]

Good Lord.

I will explain it slowly.

The 1st amendment only applies to GOVERNMENT interference in public speech. The internet is public in the sense that the GOVERNMENT cannot interfere with what is said there.

But this is a PRIVATE site, meaning it is OWNED by an individual, in the same way a house is owned.

There is no grey area. The GOVERNMENT cannot interfere in what is posted here, but Moore can do with his PROPERTY what he pleases.

And Temec? If you have so many rights at school how come the GOVERNMENT can search your lockers without a warrant?

The present SCOTUS has ruled that students up through high school have only limited rights, which by the way, do NOT include free speech. Tell the truth, what would happen if you stood up and told a teacher he was full of *****. Or better yet, just sat there and repeatedly gave him the finger, which the SCOTUS has ruled is a type of free speech?

You would be gone.



nalbar

You know, there is no need for the condescending tone man. Are you a Constitutional Law Attorney, because unless you are, all of what you are writing is just your opinion. You would be more right, IF this were a MEMBERS ONLY site. It is not, and because it is open to anyone to post to, it is just that grey area that we (and a LOT of people in cyberspace) are talking about. Sure, Moore can do whatever he likes, but this "space" is not his living room. This is just the issue Google, MySpace and Wiki are dealing with right now. The Feds little care what is there, but I am not sure that is the point.

Here is a more to the point example: I create a park. I open it to the public, and say that anyone who wants to can use what is there. Certain people pay a little more so that they can use the swings too, but no one is turned away, not even minors. Is this now a public park, like Balboa Park, even though it is still private property? That is what folks are talking about.

[reefreak]

However you must join to post. That makes it members only.

[Techknowledgy]

Maybe, but if you look at the public profiles, most people are pretty anonymous.

[reefreak]

But they still join and agree to terms of usage. That put them at the will of the site owner or whoever the site owner gives control to. Being anonymous only gives someone a way to hide. It does not keep them from being a member.

[nalbar]

Sorry, your analogy does not fit.

It is not who you allow that would matter, it is the fact that you can DISALLOW them any time you want, for any reason. You own the property. It is ALWAYS private as long as that holds true, and you can control what is said there. Just because you let them in, does not mean you can't change your mind. That would be like saying if you throw a party in your back yard, the guests never have to leave if they don't want to.

You would have to deed it over to a public entity (like a city) for it to become really 'public'. No individual would own it then.

But I don't expect you to understand. And I really don't care that you don't get it.

All that matters is that Moore can kill this place anytime he wants. Certainly you admit Moore can pull the plug? Yet is it your position he can pull the plug but not control other things. That would make no sense.



nalbar

[Techknowledgy]

But they still join and agree to terms of usage. That put them at the will of the site owner or whoever the site owner gives control to. Being anonymous only gives someone a way to hide. It does not keep them from being a member.

This is all they agree to:

"Forum Rules

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of San Diego Reef Forums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of San Diego Reef Forums, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of San Diego Reef Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."

That isn't much.

[SDguy]

That isn't much.

That's kind of on purpose. It leaves it up to us. The more precise you spell out stuff, the more people will find ridiculous loop holes and cry foul, saying "they didn't technically break the rules".....

[Techknowledgy]

Makes sense Peter. Thanks. Your fish still has his hat on. :)....... must still be recovering from New Years Eve!

[SDguy]

Refresh your browser ;)

[fishfinger]

Wow...someone isn't going to be happy with this....


Hilarious.........but true. I got hell from my wife yesterday about the butt in the face avatar....she wanted to know what porn site I was on.....It took a bit of explaining ....then she asked why that sort of stuff would be on a site for reefs in the first place. Some things just don't belong in public. And this site is public....I think everyone gets it except that some refuse to go along anyway.

I am as guilty as any of crossing the lines of good behaviour here. I was told to stop certain behaviour or get out. I was suspended for it. It was the right thing for the MODs to do. I hold no ill feeling about it. I stopped discussing certain issues here for a good reason. This is a reef keeping site. Not a political argument site....not a creation vs. evolution site.....just a reefing site...I got it. That is what we all should do so that our main purpose for being here is preserved? Right?
I like having the lounge but it needs to stay nice and easy.......lounge...like relax.......correct?

[Trickman2]

Hilarious.........but true. I got hell from my wife yesterday about the butt in the face avatar....she wanted to know what porn site I was on.....It took a bit of explaining ....then she asked why that sort of stuff would be on a site for reefs in the first place. Some things just don't belong in public. And this site is public....I think everyone gets it except that some refuse to go along anyway.

I am as guilty as any of crossing the lines of good behaviour here. I was told to stop certain behaviour or get out. I was suspended for it. It was the right thing for the MODs to do. I hold no ill feeling about it. I stopped discussing certain issues here for a good reason. This is a reef keeping site. Not a political argument site....not a creation vs. evolution site.....just a reefing site...I got it. That is what we all should do so that our main purpose for being here is preserved? Right?
I like having the lounge but it needs to stay nice and easy.......lounge...like relax.......correct?

Exactly, Fishfinger....Everyone can stop whining and move on. lets have some good fun.

[AndeezNano]

wait...this is a reef site?

[Techknowledgy]

That is what the splash screen says! :)

[josh]

there are alot of bored people on sdreefs lately. you should all go clean your tanks and write less posts about posting. i bet your coralline is creaping a little farther than you like, or maybe your due for a water change?

maybe if you just cleaned your tank you could make a computer diagram of you aquascaping, and then make a few other ideas and ask the community to give the opiniones on it.

[mazilla]

You want to get stupid with it Maz? Allow me...

So if you really want to get technical, what you did awhile ago was illegal.




:ohsnap:


if you misconstrued what i said to be some sort of threat, i assure you it was not my intention. please pm me a copy of the email so i can see where the mistake was made and we can resolve any feelings of resentment you may have towards me. I dont have anything against you TV, or any mod directly for that matter, rather i am worried about the systems future as a whole. please feel free to pm me with any further concerns at your leisure.

That being said....


I am not here to make enemies with anybody. Believe it or not, I am here to make friends and have made several. I do, however, and no matter how strongly ANY members of this site tries to convince me otherwise, feel that peoples rights to speak their minds should not be oppressed simply because the law may not forbid it in a particular context. Whether it be through written word or a thousand captured in a single instant, we should desire the opinions of our peers if only to learn from them.

No person should want to judge another person based on their own view of what is considered "offensive". When i traveled across Italy, there was nudity in shop windows and on billboards in almost every city i stopped in. I was never offended; rather i was happy to see that the Italians we're comfortable enough with themselves to show the beauty of the human body.

Maybe i am just being paranoid, but i am worried that one day nobody will be able to speak their mind here,or post an avitar of their fiancee whom they express their adoration for by presenting her image everytime he posts. Will a time come when it is forbidden to defend your reputation against attack without fearing either the sudden closure of a thread, the loss of a free account, or worse yet being a pay member and getting your money stolen on a whim.

I cannot recall a time in the last year where a problem arose that was not handled, either by a calm collected member with words of advice or the eventual lose of interest and cooling down period. They were almost never resolved with the whimsical closing of a thread, and even rarer still, the banning of members. The sudden lose of several veteran members has to be a clue for some people that there is a problem arising here.


Either way, i have said my piece and i have gotten people thinking thus I have reached my goal. The worse case is i get to say i told you so and peace out, or everything will be fine and i'll still be happy.

AT THE RISK OF SOUDING REDUNDANT, please dont take personal what i have said all you moderators, both super and regular. It's meant only to be a suggestion that with great power comes great responsibility, and i am only asking that you not abuse yours. We are at your mercy comrades. :hideeyes:



Mazilla out.

[swissfish]

The sudden lose of several veteran members has to be a clue for some people that there is a problem arising here.


Ou contraire mon fraire
The veteran members (all good contribiuters to the hobby, with advice and frags) i spoke too diden't leave because of the moderators, no they left because of the lack thereoff and all the drama and namecalling. The only one i know of who left because of different reasons I know off is Kamilek.

[fadel]

its has been 2 days since the drama started..............

and i dont think i started it but any how

its over and its done, why people keeping making abig freaking deal out of it..
me and tecknoviking.... droped the issue along time and its OVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

how come people love to stair the crap.

drop the drama life is too short.........................

me and techno didnt even talk about the issue after we said drop it....... and its droped

i didnt pm him after his last pm.... i dont want to win.... there is no winner here.......................... i decided to leave because i want to leave. not because techno ( i cant even spell his name)
its meeeeeee... i just mad emy decision...... on the other hand all other people took advantage of this drama and started to stair the ****........


STOP STOP STOP.............. its not worth to lose friend over it.....
seams that all of you need to read this book

http://i10.tinypic.com/8238x1t.jpg

stop the drama...........................
i even feel guilty for this..... its over and dont start another drama by making smart A** comment back
just drop it
you all winner behind the keyboared

its over
and come buy my stuff ( lol )


LIFE IS TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHORT

[DaveMorris]

You know guys, I have only one issue with all of the drama that we have had the unfortunate displeasure of dealing with in the last couple of days. I don't think anyone wants this site to get nazi-like in the forums. I do wish, though, that people would remember one simple, little fact. This is a website dedicated to reefkeeping, marine, and freshwater (sort of) tanks. We have a lounge forum here because every now and then we come up with a subject that doesn't pertain to fishkeeping. People who come to this site should be granted the expectation that the subject matter will actually pertain to reefkeeping and not battles of an avatar, politics, sex, drugs, and Rock-n-Roll. I didn't have a problem with the avatar in question, but I did have a problem with the childish behavior exhibited by many that was brought on because of that avatar. There are a lot of us that are at fault here. Let us simply try to remember that in the immortal words of a guy in LA "Can't we all get along?" Think of the tremendous benefit that you have gained from the folks here. The friendships that we all have made at frag swaps, meetings, late nights at SWI, and group buys are more important than any of the BS. That's my $0.29 worth.

[iwantone]

I only have one thing to say,

Does anybody have a green monti cap with blue or purple edges? I have a lot of cool stuff for trade.

[nahtanoj]

how 'bout them chargers?

[fishfinger]

I just did a nice Scripps water change. 15 gallons out and 15 new ones in. Changed the carbon...........it's a nice looking and good stable operating 29 plex with a 20 gal fuge....plenty of macro growing well.......let me know if you need a few clipping anyone.....the price is good.......free!!!

Ahhhhh..back to lounging for me I think. What a relaxing sport this reefing is. Just bought a used 190 gallon set up. I plan on putting it in my new office.....It will be a freaking knock out when I am done getting her going. It will be the first time I have set one up with a sump and over flow. May need some free help doing it and getting it figured out. I have a 125g plexi tank that I plan on using as a fuge if I can get it working correctly. I hope to make the fuge as interesting to look at as the tank....well almost. I pick up the 190 this weekend and since it is used I plan to buff it out first to make sure it is nearly perfect before I set her in place and start the plumbing etc..... Anyone have any advice on the buffing out process? I would like to do it with power tools if possible so it does not take forever.......http://i12.tinypic.com/867f2bp.jpg

[nalbar]

Geeze fish,

I am scared of that water right now. You got courage pal.

For the first time in years I am mixing my own.


nalbar

[pk-sd]

Hilarious.........but true. I got hell from my wife yesterday about the butt in the face avatar....she wanted to know what porn site I was on.....It took a bit of explaining ....then she asked why that sort of stuff would be on a site for reefs in the first place. Some things just don't belong in public. And this site is public....I think everyone gets it except that some refuse to go along anyway.......


Its true, I have to be careful about SDreefs in front of my kids now. Not to mention logging on from work. If there are too many of these images at this site, I will either get in trouble or they will block at the site.....:confused:

[mmoore0803]

Okay....I have a great subject changer....

"We need to apply twenty-first century information technology to the healthcare field. We need to have our medical records put on the I.T."

Name that author ;)

[fishfinger]

Geeze fish,

I am scared of that water right now. You got courage pal.

For the first time in years I am mixing my own.


nalbar


Oh that's just great.......now i hear there is a problem with Scripps. what the hell is wrong with the stuff now? I will let ya know if I have a disaster.

[acbaldwin]

Okay, so what's wrong with Scripps? I need to go get about 60g pretty soon.

fishfinger... Awesome macros you got growing there, I gots ta get me some of them!!!

[mazilla]

you should see the little macro garden i have growing on a koralia. a little piece got tangled in the grill and i left it alone, now the entire top has become a mini macro garden. i just leave that section in the tank when i clean the PH. every month or so i will pull most of the stuff off and toss it in the fuge, that way it wont take over the PH completely.

[BigAir]

Nothing wrong with scripps that I am aware of. It's not like they air lifted most of the water form the lagoon in carlsbad that just had a spill to the pump inlet at the pier.

You guys and scripps rumors makes me want to:http://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/bang.gif

[DaveMorris]

Nothing wrong with Scripps. There never is.

[acbaldwin]

Nothing wrong with Scripps. There never is.

Didn't think so. Thanks you two.

[Techknowledgy]

On the thread:

If in any way shape or form I offended anyone on this site with my comments about free speech, I humbly apologize. My words are not meant to offend, but to enlighten and further the debate. If a bunch or very smart people like reef keepers, and you must admit you are a bit smarter than the average bear- (have to be to keep these fragile eco-systems going), cannot talk frankly and adult like about issues the concern us, and our children, then we have a problem.

Off the Thread:
Has ANYONE ever had a disaster with Scripps water? I am collecting 110 gallons on Saturday or Sunday.... even with the storm of the century.

[acbaldwin]

On the thread:

Off the Thread:
Has ANYONE ever had a disaster with Scripps water? I am collecting 110 gallons on Saturday or Sunday.... even with the storm of the century.

Ahh not really, I always like to go when everyone says not to. No line that way. :D

[BigAir]

Scripps is the only water I have used in the 3+ yrs in this hobby. No problems at all. The only recomendation I have is to let it die off in the dark for about a week before using it, especially if it has been raining or it is red tide time. Never heard of a crash from scripps water ever.

[pk-sd]

I got some water on Monday. All looks good.

[malachai629]

I'm buffing my 192 right now! I'll keep you posted of all my mistakes so that you may avoid them. What are the dims of yours?


Just bought a used 190 gallon set up. I plan on putting it in my new office.....It will be a freaking knock out when I am done getting her going. It will be the first time I have set one up with a sump and over flow. May need some free help doing it and getting it figured out. I have a 125g plexi tank that I plan on using as a fuge if I can get it working correctly. I hope to make the fuge as interesting to look at as the tank....well almost. I pick up the 190 this weekend and since it is used I plan to buff it out first to make sure it is nearly perfect before I set her in place and start the plumbing etc..... Anyone have any advice on the buffing out process? I would like to do it with power tools if possible so it does not take forever

[fishfinger]

Okay, so what's wrong with Scripps? I need to go get about 60g pretty soon.

fishfinger... Awesome macros you got growing there, I gots ta get me some of them!!!
They are doing pretty good now. It was bad at first. Then they kicked into high gear.....let me know if ya want a few clippings

[acbaldwin]

They are doing pretty good now. It was bad at first. Then they kicked into high gear.....let me know if ya want a few clippings

I've got a nice red feathery macro in my tank right now, once it gets established I'd definitely be willing to trade you some clippings. Thanks!:cool:

[fishfinger]

I've got a nice red feathery macro in my tank right now, once it gets established I'd definitely be willing to trade you some clippings. Thanks!:cool:
Sounds like a deal.....variety....that's what I like. Say when.....