Ridiculously important ethics question. Or maybe not.

[acbaldwin]

Kind of a tag-along to Peter's thread here (http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29193&page=2).
What do you guys think of markup on used goods? For example, say I get a kickass deal on a huge sump/fuge for 100 bucks here on sdreefs, and turn around and resell it 6 months later for 150 bucks. Still a good deal, but I make a profit. These are totally made up numbers, so don't bother searching for the equipment thread to steal my imaginary kickass deals:D ;)
I've got my own opinion on the matter, but what do you guys think?

[BigAir]

Nothing really wrong with making a small profit. Good thing this is a hypothetical question, as there is no way you will be able to turn a profit here on the cheaps board.

I have seen what you are asking about done here many times over by other members.

[SDguy]

I can't be mad at you for making more on it than I did (assuming I was the original seller).

a. 6 months can change things. Perhaps there was a glut of sumps when I was selling it.

b. I should have done my research and asked more.

c. You got lucky and happen to stumble on someone that is willing to pay too much for something.

[rudy]

I can't be mad at you for making more on it than I did (assuming I was the original seller).

a. 6 months can change things. Perhaps there was a glut of sumps when I was selling it.

b. I should have done my research and asked more.

c. You got lucky and happen to stumble on someone that is willing to pay too much for something.

I agree.

[Chanas4]

I onced gave away a tank and stand, then turned around and saw it being sold for quite a bit here. It was okay, tank was just in the way, and I didnt really lose anything.

[Clownaholic]

Wasn't something like this the basis for the guy that traded up from a red paper clip to house over the span of a couple years (In New York State I think)?

1) It is business which for the most part is based on buy it for $1 and selling for $2. That's all retailers do unless they make their own products.

2) It is pretty shallow if you are intentionally dealing someone else down who may need to sell stuff off for the money and then you turn around and sell it for what they should have gotten for it, if not for the deal you gank them on.

Personally, I'd go for #1. Some people are better in sales and others just don't care.

[SolRo]

I do hate people that take handouts/downs, or worse PIF frags, and turn around and sell them.

[rollinghead]

If their was a understanding between U and the seller (PIF, I give U a good deal please do the same ect...), then stick with the deal! But Their's absolutely nothing wrong with buying something and reselling it for fair market value! Is this a trick ? or what? :confused:

[pnguy3n]

I think there should be a "reef" code of honor. If you get a PIF frag then you should PIF not sell it for a profit. I had this happen to me a couple of times. I'm not going lie I did go "***'? IMO that's just the moral thing to do but not all people are honest that's just how society works. So am I really surprise? No

[SDguy]

I agree, but I don't think the OP had PIF frags in mind with this question.

[acbaldwin]

No, I'm definitely not talking about PIF here. I don't think anybody should be making a profit off of a community thing like that.

cheap bastids. :mad:

[rollinghead]

I had to put that in their, because someone would have made a big deal out of it! I know he was not! That's also the reason I have not taken any PIF, because all my stuff can be bought if the price is right! :D

[SDguy]

because all my stuff can be bought if the price is right! :D

Coral ***** :D

[Redeye]

it annoys me when I see it happen in a 2 day period, and just cause someone has no life and is here 24/7 they grab the great deals than just markup and sell the next day

Sucks for the less well off folk that are trying to feed their reef addiction

[fishfinger]

Kind of a tag-along to Peter's thread here (http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29193&page=2).
What do you guys think of markup on used goods? For example, say I get a kickass deal on a huge sump/fuge for 100 bucks here on sdreefs, and turn around and resell it 6 months later for 150 bucks. Still a good deal, but I make a profit. These are totally made up numbers, so don't bother searching for the equipment thread to steal my imaginary kickass deals:D ;)
I've got my own opinion on the matter, but what do you guys think?


Nothing wrong with that IMO. It's called free enterprise. It's what our economy is built on basically. What ever the market will bear is the price. As long as you are not lying about what the product is then you can ask and get any price you want to. So you picked it up at a way below market price and then turned around and made a profit. No problem.

[kjsreef]

I see us as a community of fellow reefers so I don't like the idea of someone sitting on here trying to buy cheap and then turn around for profit. If you want to do that at least go sell it on RC.

[acbaldwin]

I see us as a community of fellow reefers so I don't like the idea of someone sitting on here trying to buy cheap and then turn around for profit. If you want to do that at least go sell it on RC.

That's really what I was looking for! I feel that this is a community board, and we're here to help each other out, but where does the line between community & fair market lie? I'm trying to get a feel for this, since I don't mind supporting the community, but I also wouldn't mind getting a few bucks to support the addiction. ;)

[acbaldwin]

just cause someone has no life and is here 24/7

This coming from a guy who is online the morning after he gets married! :D ;)

[SDguy]

I also see it as, do I want to be the guy that shows up to various club meetings and people go, "Oh hey, there's that cool cat Peter" or the guy that gets whispers behind his back. It's a personal choice :D

[SDguy]

This coming from a guy who is online the morning after he gets married! :D ;)

I think that jab may need a few more smilies

:D :D :) :) ;) ;)

[jacksandgo]

Agreed, and I'll rant on this a bit.

I've seen this happen, as have many others, with a select few on here time and time again since I've been here. Particularly, with things like live rock. Good deals pop up, they're messaging them 2 minutes after the posted stuff, and not too much later...days...a week, there it is for sale again at an inflated price by that buyer on this board. I'm actually surprised more hasn't been said recently about this, because others were usually called out on their behavior in the forums.

It gets tiring because this IS a community, and the inference is, by joining and participating, you're trying to help your fellow reefers by (among other things) offering original items for sale or resale, or purchasing from them to help them out and get something you want/need in exchange. It's not about making a buck off of the community by acting as a "taxman/middleman" every chance you get, by snapping up deals, then reselling to someone else. Especially when that someone else has the same access to the item when it was originally for sale, and may have missed out simply because they didn't see the item for sale in time. It's not legally wrong, obviously, but it is morally suspect.

My response is simple. I don't buy from those individuals when I see their game. I would suggest others do the same.


Edit: Actually, it IS illegal, if you're buying and reselling for a profit, and you don't have a business license. And all profits from said sale must be declared as taxable income on the schedule C form to the IRS when you file taxes at the end of the year. So technically, if you're not doing that, you ARE illegal. The original seller is, of course, not breaking the law if they're selling something they purchased, and taking a loss. I won't get into selling frags and taxable income implications, since it would most likely be a loss when you factor in the cost of running your tank and original purchases.




I see us as a community of fellow reefers so I don't like the idea of someone sitting on here trying to buy cheap and then turn around for profit. If you want to do that at least go sell it on RC.

[iwantone]

When it comes to equipment I don't really care. When it comes to corals it often pisses me off. If I give someone free frags of xenia or kenyan tree and they tell me that one day they will return the favor and I never hear from them. But then 3 months later they are selling frags of what I gave them than they are a piece of crap.

[victortrav]

if you buy it for what ever, you should be able to sell it for what ever. If it has been given to you you should pass that on to the next person. Ive given away alot more than sold, telling the person that when you see me post for something i need keep me in mind for a great deal because i helped you out. I have yet to see that happen. Its kinda hard to be uber ethical when you know that the next person will take you for what ever they can.

[FishBulb]

I guess I have no problem with it if it's not intentional. Like if I buy a sump for very cheap because I got a good deal. Then a year later I get rid of it because I never set it up and it's obviously worth more than I paid. No harm was intended and it's just the way things work. In general though, I don't like the idea of someone buying something I really wanted just so they can sell it a few days later at a profit. I don't have time to troll the boards all day so I never get first dibs. I personally would just rather leave things up for others who need it more.

[DaveMorris]

I think we can all see a profiteer when it is happening. We can then make up our own mind as to whether or not we want to do business with that person.

The thing that makes me mad even more than that is everyone that continuously *****es about how cheap people are here on this board. Enough already. If you have something to sell, post it for what you want to get for it. Sell it somewhere else if you have to, but I wish people would quit whining about how cheap they think people on this board are. I have purchased quite a few things from people here ranging from $5 to several hundred. I have never questioned the cost to the seller. If it is posted for $25, then I won't call if I am not prepared to pay $25. I understand the struggles that sellers have had. I have experienced it with the very few things that I have sold, but I simply told people that my price posted is what it is selling for. Listening to people whine about it is like watching someone complain about smog and the environment as they hop into their 1978 Pinto badly in need of a tuneup.

OK I'm stepping down off the soap box now.

[sac_ngheo]

If someone buys the whole system, or big piece of coral and turns around sale pieces...good move! We all support this action. This would help a lot too.

If people got good deal, use them, and sale them when no need, they can mark up price or whatever they want.

If someone grabs on good deal on single or multiple items from this forum not for their need but turns around sale to make profit, I don't think this board serves for that purpose.

This is an expensive hobby, give people a chance buy/trade what they need to save money and enjoy.

Doug

[boalgf]

Sometimes when I see one of the many "mini" store owners buying up a lot of stuff I get slightly annoyed.

I feel that this is a community made up of friends (and enemies). Making a profit by buying something off of here that you don't intend to use yourself may be justifiable, but it is also in poor taste. Don't buy it if you only want to resell at a higher price. Buy it if you want to put it in your tank.

[unix858]

ehhh.. everyone has their own opinions.. good points .. bad points... let them do what they want... dont sell your ish to that person if you think they're gonna turn around and make some profit, but how would you know that ... it would be easier if we all just minded our own business but thats not possible because someone always has something to say (dont hate just a thought lol)... the world is a complicated place. I mean its easy to know the simple solution to a problem but its hard to implement it. Kinda like women? (i say that becuase my gf is LOCO haha) Dont hate girls =P

[Yolo]

but ultimately, its all just a personal form of trying to convince myself that I am actually making money. I know I am just lieing to myself. But I feel better about it. I'll post stuff for $50 and then turn around and sell it for $20 when they show up cause I like them and we are all friends. Bulk purchases of entire systems often benefit quite a few people who otherwise did not want to invest the time and monies to deal with the hassle. Try and figure out what your time costs and profit takes up a whole new meaning. This is still a hobby ultimately and we all need to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror.

Example 1) I needed a sump. XXXX on this board sold me a very nice tank for $30. It did not fit. I could easliy sell it for double, but will be selling it for $40 to cover some time/gas, etc. That is still a PIF.

Example 2) Bought a damaged item from someone who stated a minor flaw. It had a major flaw. Won't be able to sell it for what I paid for, will sell it with a loss.

Example 3) Seller delivered item completely out of spec as to what was described, not worth what was paid for. But a deal is a deal so there will be a loss there.

Example 4) Saltwaterfish.com - I get something "free" every order. Most times I give that item away to someone free. Sometimes I sell it to cover the losses since I pretty much spend an extra $20 or lose $20 on each order due to flakes or dead fish (I cover the guarantee and deal with it).

We could go on and on, bottom line is it all balances out one way or another...Just try to be cool about things and treat people the way you would like to be treated. No one is factoring in all the time/activity involved in phone calls, waiting for people, scheduling, etc.

No way in the world this hobby has enough room to make any real money at it...Thats why we call it a hobby.

People that whine about others making too much "profit" are the same ones who probably don't want to pay $33 a year to make sdreefs "rich". ;)

[Techknowledgy]

Mike for President! You ROCK!

[acbaldwin]

People that whine about others making too much "profit" are the same ones who probably don't want to pay $33 a year to make sdreefs "rich". ;)


No no, I just don't pay cause I'm cheeeeeep.:p :D :D :D

[Techknowledgy]

That is what they say. :) Don't be cheap with your wife, your friends, your kids, your family, your tank or your dog. They will all come back to bite you..... some time.... somewhere...... some place. PIF means just that. There may be a great balancing eventually, but if not so what.
I ALREADY owe Yolo more than I have ever paid him for stuff. (Thanks Mike.)

[Yolo]

My last comment was really intended towards those who were implied as actually able to make a profit in buys, trades, and sales on this site. It was along the lines that they should at least kick something back.

I remember they day the sdreefs domain name had a problem and a whole bunch of people were bummed since the site appeared to be gone.

No mail list, no real names, etc. Seem to recall RC suddenly became popular again at that moment.

:p :p

Note: Are we mixing the words business, hobby, ethics, friendships, and karma all together.

[Poacher]

Well for Y'alls information,

Anything I would sell has my signature on it so its gotta be worth twice as much as my asking price......Kinda like Steve Tyree Frags...it was once owned by the great Poacher so its gotta be good..:p .

[Techknowledgy]

I like your proverb Poacher.

[paralabrax]

Agreed, and I'll rant on this a bit.

I've seen this happen, as have many others, with a select few on here time and time again since I've been here. Particularly, with things like live rock. Good deals pop up, they're messaging them 2 minutes after the posted stuff, and not too much later...days...a week, there it is for sale again at an inflated price by that buyer on this board. I'm actually surprised more hasn't been said recently about this, because others were usually called out on their behavior in the forums.



Yea there is "someone" on this board who most have a warehouse full of swooped up cheap liverock. But hey all the power to them

If someone gives you something free you should pass it on for free if you paid for something sell it for what ever you want, thats it

[mazilla]

imho depending on the markup there is nothing wrong with making a profit ELSEWHERE; thats the American way.

when it involves the people of this community i think it to be in poor taste to re-sell with the intent to make more than a very minor profit to cover initial costs, like gas. for example- 10%(higher value items, tanks etc)- 20%(lower value items, impeller shaft etc) would be a fare increase.

[unix858]

ALL I CAN SAY IS "PAY IF FORWARD" WOOOOOOT WOOOOOOT
"starts singing "We are family, i got all my reefers with me, We are family, Get 'up Everybody and sing" ?????