substrate question

[AFxPolo]

When i bought my tank off my friend who had it set up for a year or so i kept all the seeded substrate. Its kind of thick (3"+ and isnt the white sand that I want) ...It's a mix of live sand and crushed coral like in fish only tanks...

So i was wondering if i removed it or most of it and added live sand only like a small layer 1-2" or something would it mess up levels of any such? Or should I just leave things alone and not worry about it.
-Scott

[chilly05willy]

Sand will mess up your tank in the long run, releasing toxins into your tank when stirred up. I would take out most of it if not all, and not add any more new sand to your tank. Bare bottoms are the best, but just looks a little odd. Healthier for your livestock though. Hope that helps.

[TXreef]

Whenyou start asking questions concerning substrait you are opening up a can of worms.

For every person out here that swears by a bare bottom tank there is one that swears by a DSB.

I have read everything I can find on the subject (including all of the long research papers) and I think it comes down to personal preference on this subject. I have a DSB and have no problems.

It would be easier to get a consensous on politics or relgion.:D

[SDMike]

Originally posted by TXreef
Whenyou start asking questions concerning substrait you are opening up a can of worms.

For every person out here that swears by a bare bottom tank there is one that swears by a DSB.

I have read everything I can find on the subject (including all of the long research papers) and I think it comes down to personal preference on this subject. I have a DSB and have no problems.

It would be easier to get a consensous on politics or relgion.:D

Amen!

Sand beds and NSW are two religious arguments yer not gonna "win."

Run with whatcha like. It'll all be OK in the end.

I've got about 2.5-3" of Southdown in my 120 and about as much CC in the two 20H tanks.

M

[bler]

there are countless books on DSB's... go readup on some of them and decide what suits YOU and your system best..

its hilarious to hear people argue over stuff like that, one thing that works for some, will not work for others and vice versa..

this hobby is all about what works for each indivdual and their system(s)...

[JeromeBaker]

In my 46 gallon I had a 5-7" DSB(deep sand bed) and my tank was extremely healthy. If your going to do softies, lps, zoos, and shrooms I would encourage you to keep the DSB(although I would advize you to replace everything you have with a finer grain of sand.) If your going to go SPS I would go barebottom because the turnover requirements for an sps tank dont really permit the use of sand.

[pk-sd]

Last time I checked, real ocean had sand at the bottom. I think that is a very good model to follow.

[pk-sd]

Originally posted by Chap
Bingo!

Thanks Jason,

I guess after 200 posts I finally posted something useful on the forum……..Nobel prize, here I come!!!
:D

[Dannyboy]

Bare bottoms are just ugly.

[brahm]

THE DSB, argument has been settle long since on RC.. The consense is DSB are crap. Even ask Ron @ OG, he is a bare bottom fan and doesn't like DSB at (notice no sand in any of his systems..which have been running for 10 years.. Notice the SPS tank he had went down after a few years..ahh..DSB (if i rember correctly). Unlike the ocean we are trying to represent a small part of the total eco system, in the ocean the sand is constently being moved, and relocated to other parts of the ocean, via storms..water movement ect...In our tanks the sand is static..every critter we put in the tank poops thus creating more waste, sooo the more things we add to clean up are sand bed are just helping with the problem. Rember the reefs are just a small part of the ocean..with millions and billions of gallons to dillute.

DSBs..are good for people just starting out, they help keep your tank a bit more stable for the first year or so. But after that.. It can become saturated and dump alot of crap back into your system.. I know this first hand when I saturated my DSB in my refuge.

Yes.. There are a lot of books that advocate a DSB, but there were alot of books that advocated Berlin Method before that, and now they are starting to come back around to Berlin as the long term effect of DSB in being reliazed. ...

(dannyboy), Good Sand Sifting Creatures.. Will actaully make your DSB workless effecient by eating all the bugs, and things that live in your dsb... If you want to keep a dsb in your need be prepared to yank most of it out and replace it every few years.



...Basically, I personally Like the way sand looks, I run it in my tank.. My holding tanks, and my prop tanks.. No Sand.. My future tank, I'm only going to have a finite amount of sand.... Why store nutrients in your tank when you can remove them..

[Dannyboy]

Ok, you are right about not sifting. Here's just a little read by Ronald Shimek, Ph. D. The entire article is here: http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm
"Problems:

More imagined than real problems bedevil keepers of sand beds. The imagined problems are proposed by people who are ignorant of the sand bed dynamics. Among these imaginary problems are accumulations of hydrogen sulfide and detritus, and the need for sifting. Hydrogen sulfide will indeed be formed in the lowermost layers of a deep sand bed. It will NOT migrate up through the sediments to poison a tank. Hydrogen sulfide is an amazingly toxic gas, but that toxicity is exceeded by its pungent rotten-egg odor. The gas will have an exceptionally strong odor, and will seem overwhelming at levels well BELOW toxic amounts. If you can smell this stuff without it literally taking your breath away, it won't be at a harmful concentration. There is no real evidence to indicate that it may reach toxic levels in a deep sand bed.

Detritus build up in the sediment is another non-problem. If the sediment fauna is thriving, there will be a slight build up of fine detritus while the rest will be processed by the infauna. The final imaginary problem, the presumed need for sifting in a healthy sand bed, simply does not exist. Small organism movements "sift" the sand sufficiently. Any other sifting of a healthy bed will cause serious harm.

Sand beds recycle materials and export many of the excess nutrients in an aquarium. Some excess nutrients are mobilized by becoming soluble through metabolic processes and need to be exported either as harvestable macroalgae or animals, grown in the main tank or a sump.

The only real problem with a sand bed is the reduction in diversity as the bed ages. This is caused by extinction and replacement problems because the volume of our beds is simply too small for some species to generate self-sustaining populations. This is remedied, by purchasing a detritivore or recharge kit or two every year or so to give a boost to the fauna.

Conclusion:

The installation of a live sand bed is easy, straight-forward, and inexpensive relative to almost all other aquarium purchases. Once established, such a bed will contribute much to the success of a reef tank by providing a biological filter with sufficient capacity to for most tanks. Additionally it will provide food for many of the suspension feeding animals such as small polyped stony corals. And, it will do this all with a minimum of care and expense."

As with just about anything in reef keeping, what works in one tank is not guarenteed to work in another. There are many ways to keep a successful reef tank so choosing your own method is up to you.

[Flamehawk]

well said.

I have sand bed too, I don't have any problem in the tank that can't be solve.

For me, is the look, and bio diversity. That's why I have the sand.

We try to recreat as close as possible the environment ocean provide for these animals we keep. So I figure if is do able and within the budget. I will try to have as many type of environment as I can to complete my system.

There is no one set formula. Do whatever pleases you, as long as it meet the needs of the animals you keep. It will be a sucessful tank.

Happy Reefing all.

George

[obarrera]

I don't think I can stand looking at my tank with no sand.

[Flamehawk]

Than put sand in it. :D It's not that hard of decision to make.

[obarrera]

Originally posted by Flamehawk
Than put sand in it. :D It's not that hard of decision to make.
I do have sand.:)

[Diverdan]

Scared of a dsb? Than just put an inch or two of sand. DSB's issues really start happening when it is deep enough to have an anoxic zone where a lot of crap can build up. (Maybe 4 inches plus).
It looks great and won't cause any problems. If you keep your tank running for years, then switch out about a third evry year or two and you are good to go.
Not that complicated IMO!

Rich