Meaning behind the nursery rhyme....getting serious on you this time

[Heather]

I'm passing this along because I find it interesting and horrifying...
Once upon a time I was a preschool teacher and sang these songs with my kids...I had no idea....
Heather

Recently there is a new artist out of Saint Louis that goes by the name JIBBS. Jibbs debut single "Chain hang low" has a history that most people are not aware of. The particular nursery rhyme that the song mimics is "Ears Hang Low" The history behind this nursery rhyme is that during the civil war Confederate soldiers would remove certain body parts (primarily ears and testicles) from the deceased corpses of freed slaves who were fighting as Northern (Yankee) soldiers after their battles. These "trinkets" were then placed on a rope necklace and worn as a trophy piece. As the lyrics to the nursery rhyme state "do your ears hang low, do they wobble to and fro... etc" "Can you throw them over your shoulder like a (Continental) soldier". This word (Continental) took this nursery rhyme from racist jargon to playful melody. The word that filled this space was (Confederate) as in Confederate soldier. Other nursery rhymes have done the same i.e. Eenie, Meenie, Minee, Moe catch a Ni**er by his toe. Not Tiger. My question to young people black and white is that "Does knowing the history of the nursery rhyme change your opinion of the New single by Jibbs." Personally knowing this myself I can't stand to hear the song. It seems to advertise our ignorance as a people, and I wrote this note to inform people of this. Knowledge is power, and Ignorance IS NOT BLISS; its SUICIDE.


....remember, "the battlefield is your mind....and those who are ignorant of it's fruit, will eat the sword".........

[supaboy1981]

I already didnt like that song but it makes it more repulsive now. Hip hop today is a disgrace to what real Mc's used to do there are a few exceptions of good rappers though Like Kanye West and Mos def if you listen to some of their songs they actually have something to say behind them.

[luistwentyone]

all the new rap\hip hop sucks, especially the dirty south rap.

I stick to old school rap

[BumbleBee]

I had heard the song on the radio (xm top 20 keeps playing it over and over) and I already didn't like it. But as a kid I totally had the tape with that song and others like it. I had no idea there was a history like that behind them. Wow, the things you learn! I agree with supaboy though, not only is hip hop a disgrace, but a lot of "music" (and I use that term lightly) is. There are a few artists out there that can still make it mean something, but not many. Shows the intelligence level and creativity we are instilling in our kids.

[slurpeshark]

What? Wait... rapping over nursery rhymes or about "chicken noodle soup with a soda on the side" or peanut butter and jelly isnt creative??? Todays rap/hiphop is horrible! bring back 2 Pac!

[victortrav]

ok yall knew i would have to chime in on this being a lover of the original fairy tales by grimm (scary ****) but the ignorance of the people in the spotlight these days and how irresponsible they can be as the lead young people down thye wrong paths they are performers chasing the all mighty dollar and should be seen as just that not role models or anyone of any significance. as much as i love my teachers (krs one & PE) i prefer to get my knowledge from books and then from books with differing opinions so i can get both sides as for the rap these days i dont even know the songs my radio only plays talk radio or its coming out of my mp3 player

[vinny73]

I was raised in a racist neighborhood and digging up stories like this just sparks a flame in people that brings up the past for of people who have been dead for a couple hundred years. They changed the words so that it was a good song. None of the slavery happened to any of us. Look up the definition of war. RAPE PILLAGE KILL AND MAME. Do things like that and you are bound to be a changed man. So, rather than talk about a stupid nursery rhyme, why not talk about the fact that the government took innocent men and turned them into dogs. Music calms the soul. I believe that song should still be sung or remembered the way it was originated. No because I am a bigot but because there is a much deeper reason why people did what they did. Do we do that crap now? No. Why dwell on it? Comments like these remind me of some bible thumper who analyzes everything WAY TOO MUCH! As far as jibbs is concerned, no talent, remake of a kids song, need any more be said?

[Heather]

Well I didn't like the song because I thought it was a cheap bite off a nursery rhyme without much creativity...but after learning all that...I don't want my children reciting either of those nursery rhymes either! I realize that people today don't know the history, so maybe it doesn't matter to them, but now that I know the history, I make the choice to eliminate it! My kids do eenie, meenie, miney moe all the time! I don't even have to forbid them to speak it again, I will let them know what it really meant, and they will make the choice themselves! I've got great kids ;)

Anyway, with all that being said....did someone say old school?? You know how I love my old school! Did you all know that Public Enemy is coming to House of Blues on December 5?? It's a Tuesday, which sucks...but Demetrius and I will be there....anyone else coming along?? Oh...did I mention that it's the COMPLETE Public Enemy crew??

[luistwentyone]

I was raised in a racist neighborhood and digging up stories like this just sparks a flame in people that brings up the past for of people who have been dead for a couple hundred years. They changed the words so that it was a good song. None of the slavery happened to any of us.

you're right. didn't happen to me.

just my grandparents land was stolen by your grandparents

[victortrav]

Im There Come Hell Or High Water

[Wulfhound]

I was raised in a racist neighborhood and digging up stories like this just sparks a flame in people that brings up the past for of people who have been dead for a couple hundred years. They changed the words so that it was a good song. None of the slavery happened to any of us. Look up the definition of war. RAPE PILLAGE KILL AND MAME. Do things like that and you are bound to be a changed man. So, rather than talk about a stupid nursery rhyme, why not talk about the fact that the government took innocent men and turned them into dogs. Music calms the soul. I believe that song should still be sung or remembered the way it was originated. No because I am a bigot but because there is a much deeper reason why people did what they did. Do we do that crap now? No. Why dwell on it? Comments like these remind me of some bible thumper who analyzes everything WAY TOO MUCH! As far as jibbs is concerned, no talent, remake of a kids song, need any more be said?

You do know some soilders still collect body parts when in conflict. u get numb to the killing, maming and destruction of others and property.
besides have u ever seen WP stick to someone? pretty gnarly

[Heather]

I was raised in a racist neighborhood and digging up stories like this just sparks a flame in people that brings up the past for of people who have been dead for a couple hundred years. They changed the words so that it was a good song. None of the slavery happened to any of us. Look up the definition of war. RAPE PILLAGE KILL AND MAME. Do things like that and you are bound to be a changed man. So, rather than talk about a stupid nursery rhyme, why not talk about the fact that the government took innocent men and turned them into dogs. Music calms the soul. I believe that song should still be sung or remembered the way it was originated. No because I am a bigot but because there is a much deeper reason why people did what they did. Do we do that crap now? No. Why dwell on it? Comments like these remind me of some bible thumper who analyzes everything WAY TOO MUCH! As far as jibbs is concerned, no talent, remake of a kids song, need any more be said?

You know...I let the whole other thing go and didn't say anything publicly before....but what the hell is your problem with me? What did I do to piss you off that you have to put me down every time I post something? You're the one who backed out of our deal all those months ago, the one you set up, and then screwed over someone else and disappeared for a few months. Why are you on my case? I wrote you privately and asked you to ignore my future posts since clearly you don't like me. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's the way you lay it out that says I was stupid for having an opinion of my own. It just isn't fair. I will not get into another mud slinging conversation with you. This is my one and only reply to you regarding this thread.

[Heather]

Im There Come Hell Or High Water
Cool...we'll have to meet up then :)

[victortrav]

hey vinny i know that alot of this racial stuff is way over with and i am coming to terms with the fact that im not going to get that 40 acres i had big plans for it too, but to not know history and heritage lends its self to generations that dont know what it is to overcome adversity, or lacking in pride to where they will sell their soul for a quick buck. Talk to an older person of any decent. I have felt the sting just as anyone else that does not conform to what society says you should be. And that should be a lesson to all. wouldnt 40 acres be nice tho

[SanDiegoIllini]

I'm passing this along because I find it interesting and horrifying...
Once upon a time I was a preschool teacher and sang these songs with my kids...I had no idea....
Heather

Recently there is a new artist out of Saint Louis that goes by the name JIBBS. Jibbs debut single "Chain hang low" has a history that most people are not aware of. The particular nursery rhyme that the song mimics is "Ears Hang Low" The history behind this nursery rhyme is that during the civil war Confederate soldiers would remove certain body parts (primarily ears and testicles) from the deceased corpses of freed slaves who were fighting as Northern (Yankee) soldiers after their battles. These "trinkets" were then placed on a rope necklace and worn as a trophy piece. As the lyrics to the nursery rhyme state "do your ears hang low, do they wobble to and fro... etc" "Can you throw them over your shoulder like a (Continental) soldier". This word (Continental) took this nursery rhyme from racist jargon to playful melody. The word that filled this space was (Confederate) as in Confederate soldier. Other nursery rhymes have done the same i.e. Eenie, Meenie, Minee, Moe catch a Ni**er by his toe. Not Tiger. My question to young people black and white is that "Does knowing the history of the nursery rhyme change your opinion of the New single by Jibbs." Personally knowing this myself I can't stand to hear the song. It seems to advertise our ignorance as a people, and I wrote this note to inform people of this. Knowledge is power, and Ignorance IS NOT BLISS; its SUICIDE.


....remember, "the battlefield is your mind....and those who are ignorant of it's fruit, will eat the sword".........

Most nursery rhymes aren't actually appropriate for children. Check out this wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursery_rhymes)
Who doesn't know 3 blind mice... in elementary school music education I'm sure it's the first song most learn how to play... wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Blind_Mice). (P.S. Many fairy tales also have dubious/disturbing origins, if you get into it)

As for your question though, I have to disagree. Although I love to bang on rappers as much as I can, they do so many stupid things, but I think the fault for this one is more on society. You can't say it's OK for parents to raise their children with it, but for it not to be in a rap song.

I think the more interesting question is this... what is more important, the origin or the use?
What I would more argue is that while the origin of many things might be dark or sketchy, I think if they have a widely accepted common use or meaning, than that trumps what is no longer used. In this example, if everyone accepts the certain phrases and tones to be a child's rhyme and not an insult, then it should be so, regardless of origin. I feel the same way about technologies that were originally intended to be used as weapons but are now household appliances or medicines. I think even more so for words or cultural things, because an object is hard to change it's characteristics, but a word or phrase is just artificial construct that we all agree what it's meaning is. So if we all agree (either explicitly or implicitly) that a certain rhyme is just a children's fairy tale, than it is. That means, I agree with the Kansas City Court who in 2004 ruled in favor of Southwest Airlines. wikipedia source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny%2C_meeny%2C_miny%2C_moe)

Jocular use of a form of the rhyme by a Southwest Airlines flight attendant, encouraging passengers to sit down so the plane could take off, led to a 2003 lawsuit charging the airline with racism. The airline was acquitted by a U.S. District Court jury in Kansas City in January 2004.[1]

Two different versions of the rhyme were attested in court :

Eeny meeny miny mo
Please sit down it's time to go

and

Eeny meeny miny mo
Pick a seat, it's time to go

The passengers in question were African American and stated that they were humiliated. Southwest is known for a lighthearted approach to passenger control.

[MrKrispy]

wow Andrew Dice Clay is rolling in his grave!

[luistwentyone]

hey vinny i know that alot of this racial stuff is way over with

my last post on this.........vinny and others would like to believe its over, but reality tells us otherwise

[swissfish]

Heather why did you have to post that? THat's one of the few English nursery rhimes I know and now i have to learn an other one:eek:


my last post on this.........vinny and others would like to believe its over, but reality tells us otherwise

I will never be over, people will always blame other people for the bad situations they are in and they never blame people that look or think the same as themselfs. It is just human nature.
I would be happy if we could just learn to respect each other.

[BumbleBee]

people will always blame other people for the bad situations they are in


Isn't that the truth!!

[luistwentyone]

Heather why did you have to post that? THat's one of the few English nursery rhimes I know and now i have to learn an other one:eek:



I will never be over, people will always blame other people for the bad situations they are in and they never blame people that look or think the same as themselfs. It is just human nature.
I would be happy if we could just learn to respect each other.


yeah my black brothers chose to come to his continent, just to work for free, shame on you my brothers........geez

[victortrav]

dude they were offering up land and a damn horse what im supposed to do

[vinny73]

What a bunch of clowns! I love when I get the best of you all. Your reactions support my point entirely. Things can only continue if you let them. My grandparents stole your land huh? Can ya prove it? If you can then I'm sorry for something that SOMEONE ELSE DID! For that, too damn bad! I didn't ship any black people over here. Why the hell should I be persecuted for it? As far as screwing people over, noone got screwed but you for letting your emotions get to you. **** happens that sometimes can't be explained or is noones business. It is YOUR CHOICE TO BE AFFECTED BY IT. DEAL WITH IT. And as far as having a problem with you heather, well, I don't. You voice your opinion and feel you have the right to. So do I. Get over it Newby.

[victortrav]

you know what.... i just wrote out a whole page of **** got real deep in it too but im no preacher so imma make my final comment and leave this post to what ever becomes of it. 3 weeks ago while i was working (I run a non profit org on the weekend designated drivers association) i was called a nigger by some idiots driving down the street and can you believe it those ****ers called me this weekend cuz they were drunk and needed a way home...

[BumbleBee]

So really what we've all gotten from this is that people are cruel, intentionally or not. It is has been and always will be that way, and there isn't a damn thing that can really be done about it but change your own personal behaviour. Gee I think we all got a long way in this conversation/arguement...

victortrav: that sucks, at least you seem to have the sense to see that it's only a few idiots and not just one whole race at fault for stupid things like that.

heather and vinny: as far as I can see you're both just posting opinions, isn't that exactly what you asked for heather? Don't take it so personally just because you don't agree.

[victortrav]

im a better man than that and they got home safe and sound

[vinny73]

Bumble bee, exactly, just opinions. And victor, you are a real nice guy. People no matter what race have narrow minded individuals. To change this is allmost impossible. But it is up to all of us to be the bigger person and see these *******es for who they are and get over it. No racist comment is called for. I moved here 6 years ago from an all white neighborhood. I never saw a black person at school until I was in 12th grade. Now, 95% of my friends are from a diferent ethnic background. Does that make me self righteous? No. That just means that I believe people are people. Most of the white people I knew were biggots and it allowed me to want to see past it. The only thing that I believe separates us all is personality and how we view things. Right?

[BumbleBee]

Like my dad taught me: Opinions are like *******s, everybody has one, and there is always someone who thinks yours stinks!

It's funny you mention you grew up in an all white neighborhood and that's at least partially what got you past it. I lived in WY till I was 8/9 and that was definately all white and they intended to keep it that way, then we moved and until I was 17 I lived in NC where we lived in a nearly all black community and believe it or not they also intended to keep it that way. It comes from all sides, and exactly like you said it is up to all of us to individually be the bigger person. Other people make other slurs or derogatory comments made, why make such a big deal over the racial ones and not the others. And I also agree, you're a nice guy victor, I have to say I might not have been inclined to be so nice in return.

[Heather]

heather and vinny: as far as I can see you're both just posting opinions, isn't that exactly what you asked for heather? Don't take it so personally just because you don't agree.
I love different opinions and the conversations they lead into...You know how us women love to argue :p But this thing with Vinny goes beyond healthy debates...Lately it feels as if he's attacking, and other people have noticed...and I just don't understand why. Perhaps we're all misunderstanding his intentions. I will try not to take it so personally in the future :) Oh, and in all fairness to Vinny, he did end up making good on that deal with the other person skipped out on a few months back...

[brahm]

correction, nursery rhymes aren't apporiate for todays breed of WUSSY childern.

[BumbleBee]

"You know how us women love to argue"
Ditto!

"correction, nursery rhymes aren't apporiate for todays breed of WUSSY childern."
HAHA, reminds me of a woman at work telling me they banned tag because it was too violent! ***

[brahm]

"You know how us women love to argue"
Ditto!

"correction, nursery rhymes aren't apporiate for todays breed of WUSSY childern."
HAHA, reminds me of a woman at work telling me they banned tag because it was too violent! ***


ya.. or red rover, and touch football..