150 Peninsula Build

[simplepleasures]

Well my friend and I spent a whole crap load of time plumbing my new 150 over the last two days and what do you know leaks everywhere. I believe the glue I was told to use is the problem. Now the question is how can I salvage any plumbing and re-seal all of the connections, and if so how? Can you just re-seal the outsides? Alot of the plumbing is connected to a Dart and will have some pressure. Any pvc experts please help.

Thanks,
Casey

[crstjohn]

What did you use?? What size piping? First you need to determine why you have leaks. If you used the wrong type of glue, I would not trust any joint to hold over time and unless you can get them apart and prepare and glue properly, I would start over, use all new fittings, and salvage any pipe that could be used for shorter runs.

[crstjohn]

Not sure if it would be a good idea to salvage parts. JMOI agree, but all fittings can be cut off of the pipe runs and the pipe can be used where possible.

[simplepleasures]

Yeah this sucks. Most of the pvc is 1.5" and the type of glue I used was (green) transition cement. The reason I used this is because I have some ABS to PVC connections and was told by the store that this glue would also be fine on PVC to PVC connections. I don't know if I just didn't use enough or the person at the store was just flat wrong. Most of the connections on the CL started leaking before pressurized (I filled the intake with water and noticed them leaking, I was just lucky I decided to put the hose in the intake otherwise my wife may have killed me).

Thanks for the replys so far,
Casey

[simplepleasures]

Some pics

[Wulfhound]

Everything u did looks right, just the wrong glue u need to use Christy's hot red for Pvc and purple primer or you will get leaks looks like u could salvage some of the pvc. If you need any PVC I have some 1/1/4", and 1", and 3/4' laying around, I also have 1 0r 2 pvc unions u may have free if you need them. Just LMK

Todd

[crstjohn]

Bummer dude! This stuff is for non-pressure pipe, ABS to PVC. What do you have that is ABS anyway?? All components should and can be PVC. I recommend Christy's Red Hot Blue glue. Sets fast and can be used within a few minutes (better to wait an hour though). You don't need to prime for 1.5" pipe but it's better if you do. If you don't like the blue color, use Christy's Clear PVC cement, not as fast setting though. As with any product, read the label before you use it.

[crstjohn]

The wye is ABS. If I were to use any ABS fittings, I would use ABS glue to weld a MIP threaded fitting to the ends. Then use a FIP threaded fitting (with teflon tape) to join the pieces. This will require more fittings but will be a better system IMO. BTW, you are going to have a killer system when finished. Use your existing piping as a pattern. I would replace all valves and fittings.

[simplepleasures]

Thanks for the help. I am going to count all the connections and get new stuff. At least I used double threaded bulk heads and because I have everything laidout it shouldn't take all that much time to put it back together. Man this sucks, I have had 5 days from hell in a row. I guess it could have been worse.

Thanks,
Casey

[swissfish]

Keep in mid that check valves will leake over time and your whole tank water might end up on the floor (i asume that the little stubs on the bottom of the tank are your returns).

[dhuynh]

Been there, done that! I use the clear PVC glue now. It takes longer to dry, but it looks cleaner and just as good as the blue stuff. No primer needed.

The trick is to apply glue on both side of the joint, then insert and do a slow twist, then wipe of the excess with a wet towel. Before you glue anything, make sure to slip all the joints together, then use a marker to mark how far into the joints each pvc should go.

I replumbed my tank 3 times before I got it right. Lots of money and very discouraging... but learn from your mistakes. :) Good luck.


Thanks for the help. I am going to count all the connections and get new stuff. At least I used double threaded bulk heads and because I have everything laidout it shouldn't take all that much time to put it back together. Man this sucks, I have had 5 days from hell in a row. I guess it could have been worse.

Thanks,
Casey

[crstjohn]

Before you glue anything, make sure to slip all the joints together, then use a marker to mark how far into the joints each pvc should go. All PVC pipe ends should be cut square. Use a chop saw or miter box and be sure to deburr all ends. You can use cutters but they tend to cut crooked. Dry fitting the pieces can be misleading as it can be hard to push them all the way together dry. Then when you glue them they will slide together further and you will be off a bit. Usually the dimensions don't need to be exact with PVC, Measure the female end of a fitting, they should all be the same for the same diameter pipe (1" or 1 1/4" I think), double the amount and add it to the distance in between the fittings. Cut the pipe to this size, glue and your done. This can be quickly accomplished with a pair of cutters.

[dj9264]

Swissfish is SO right!

Closed loop or not, that whole system down to those intakes is on the wood floor.

Your poor wife when she gets up one morning to the wonderful sound of a large water pump running dry. Then finds 1" of water on that wood floor!

The solvent you used will be the least of your problems.

PS. Love the MH hood/manifold.

[simplepleasures]

DJ and Swiss and everyone else for that matter,
The last thing I want is water to flood and the reason be because I didn't plan or know that it could happen. Can you elaborate on the reason there will be water all over the floor? If you see a flaw in my system please let me know. The two returns on the bottom of the tank are only connected to the closed loop and there are no check valves. I don't understand how water can be on the floor unless a close loop pipe breaks or a connection fails and that can happen to anyone of us.
Thanks for all the help
Casey

[Wes]

Is that Pam in the background???

[lucubrator]

Are the two outlets in the bottom attached to the unions in the third picture?

If so, then you should really put a valve between the unions and the bottom of the tank. IT's a good idea to have a way to take out almost all the plumbing without having to drain the tank.

Do you think you could place the plumbing in the stand as you plan to have it, and take a picture with the doors open? That would help the rest of us out a lot, I think.

[swissfish]

OK, i was thinking that the bottom pipes are your return pipes from the sump and the top pipes are the closed loop.
Thanks for the clarification.
I second lucubrators opinion about the valves.

[vinny73]

If you need a hand let me know! If you have all the parts ready, I could help you get that bad boy up by the end of the day. It would only take a couple hours. Use unions wherever possible and valves too. Danny once made a point to me that is verry true, when your pump dies, and it will, just when we don't know, you will be so glad that you don't have to drain your tank just to change your pump! Plus, it is good to take it out every once in a while to inspect it and clean it. Unions and valves are expensive but worth it. There is an irrigation supply house on clairemont mesa blvd, right around the corner from AW. They are MUCH cheaper! If you have to buy stuff from AW then you better bring some lube. Especially if you're buying it twice. HTH, LMK, Vinny.

[pblocal]

just so everyone knows, that transition cement (green glue) is perfectly OK for what he used it for, actually a bit of overkill, the green is actually for going from white to black pipe. The blue (or clear) is cheaper and probably better anyway. That is the code requirement on glue for transitions as it bonds both where the other ones do not.

The problem was that you did not use enough glue, for sure. Like Danny said, when you glue, glue both the inside of the one fitting and the outside of the pipe (glue both), insert pipe into fitting, do a slight 1/4 turn of the pipe and then hold in place till it sets up (a couple of minutes at most). After it sets up move on to the new piece.

After it is all done, it is best to let it completely dry overnight before putting water through it.

And don't bother to try to save anything. The 1 1/2 pipe is like $3 or $4 for a 10' stick, its the cheapest thing in the batch.

[dt90gt]

Keep in mid that check valves will leake over time and your whole tank water might end up on the floor (i asume that the little stubs on the bottom of the tank are your returns).

Not to hijack, but how long are you talking and where on the valve will it leak? I just finished plumbing my 360 and put a 1" check valve on the return right after the pump, would be a MAJOR pia if it leaks!

[lucubrator]

It's not that they leak externally, it's that they get things growing in them, then fail and leak internally, letting the water run back down through the pump, into the sump, and onto the floor.

[simplepleasures]

Ok,
Time for an update. I am racing to get this thing filled a running at least before Kamil gets his up and running. I started this way befor him and had less to do and he is catching me. I was lucky and thankfull to home depot because they replace all the parts (for free) that were ruined from poor advice from one of their employees. I used the Blue glue this time and completed the re-plumb yesterday and put water in it last night. I have two drips from threaded pieces that I am going to re-tape and thread. And one drip from a tee that I am going to replace. The dart is quiet and turns the water good. I will post pics probably next week after I cure any and all drips.
Thanks,
Casey

[simplepleasures]

And now for the Pics. And proof for Kamil that I really did get mine wet first!

[lucubrator]

Geez that's a huge leather! I think you win the prize for most complicated plumbing too!

[Ars3nal619]

frag that beast !!! pssstt ill take one ;)

[simplepleasures]

haha
Yeah the pump is a Dart. I had to tape the hell out of the intake and output to get the threads to seal. I am going to wait about two weeks befor I transfer everything over. I have some rock ruble in there now to get the bacteria going. I thought I would post a last pic of the old tank. That leather is big and even bigger when I had it under MH, I cann't wait to get it in the new tank and back under MH.
Casey

[simplepleasures]

Time for a pic update.

[simplepleasures]

Last one for now. I need to learn how to take better pics of this thing.

[swissfish]

Since your tank is a roomdivider too i would look into getting all the LR ready for "pegging". Drill little holes into it and glue air tube to the frags and you can easily place them on steep slopes. I saw a video somewhere on the board here.

[BigAir]

I did not look, but mabey it is in here. http://www.reefvideos.com/

[swissfish]

yes this one, it is the fourth one down an the left. I wish i did it this way.

BTW that yellow figi does not look as big anymore :D

[simplepleasures]

Yeah I was thinking of that when I get more rock. That guys tank was nice, I just don't what to go to far SPS right now because I will probable not have the time and energy to maintain them.

[pattymelt]

Casey, Nice to see you set up a bigger tank, looks nice. Did your friend ever get the 120 going?

[simplepleasures]

Hey Matt,
Thanks.

Yeah Jamie has had the 120 up and running. He has a hair algea problem right now but he is super stoked on it.

Casey

[Talkn2themike]

Did Socal do the wood work for ya?

[simplepleasures]

Yeah Mike. I was very happy with SOCAL. They did a great job.

[Noob]

dude i like your aquascape.. looks natural! im gonna do my scape just like that.

[simplepleasures]

More rock.

[DaveMorris]

Looks great! Especially the pic with the TV in it. Do the fish get their own cable box? :)

[crstjohn]

Looks great! Especially the pic with the TV in it. Do the fish get their own cable box? :)
Yeah, it looks like the clowns are rooting for the Packers!!

[simplepleasures]

Thats our living room T.V. That is the start of the Citrus bowl that is on right now.

[simplepleasures]

I changed the rock werk. What do you think? I like it alot more now and once I fill it with coral and let them grow I think it will be nice.

[crstjohn]

I like it too, however, based on my personal experience, stuff will do a whole lot better if you quit messing with it. Not that changing your rocks around once or twice is bad, but when everything is stable, not stressed out, things really start to take off! You have a great tank and it will really take shape in a few months.

[socalcreations]

Caey, can we.....I get a pic of the entire stand/canopy/tank? If you can get a nice one I'll add it to our gallery!! Looks great.

[simplepleasures]

Thanks

Yeah Randy. I will try and get a good one of the hole thing. Give me a week or two.

Thanks
Casey

[Talkn2themike]

Looks awsome Casey. All you gotta do now is dump few hundred bucks worth of coral in there so you can frag stuff out for me when i get my tank up and running again.

[Rushdog86]

can you take a pic of your sump area? tank looks nice

[simplepleasures]

Rush,
Yeah will do. I didn't realize that was a pic I deleted the other day when I was making room for the new pics. I now have to find that pic it maybe on my home comp.
Casey

[simplepleasures]

New pics and the final rock werk. All I need now are more coral and fish.

[simplepleasures]

Here is a missing plumbing pic. It is a little old as I am now running bag less and have a g3. Sorry for the poor quality pics and dirty tank, I was in a rush to even post this update.

[cagirly2006]

looking good. thats a huge yellow leather. I bet you could easily frag that thing and get some more corals that way. Just a though because it is so big. Has it grown since the first picture u posted of it. Looks like it.

gl

[DaChrisDude]

very nice! I like the aquascaping.

[reddog-reef]

i too am impressed witht he size of that leather. love th rockwork, and the way you have it layed out you could even build bridges between rock formations lol. looks great!

[simplepleasures]

A couple of updated pics. Some things have changed with the tank since the last update. I bought a potters wrasse and after adding it to the tank I lost my tang, lawnmower blenny, and the potters. I think the potters may have brought something in to the tank. I am having trouble with heat and some of my corals are not doing so well. So I have to figure that out befor getting any more coral. Other than that not much has changed.

[simplepleasures]

here is a couples more.

[Nick_Kun]

nice my new tank is going to be similar to this.

Sorry to hear about your heat issue. Have you tried running your lights in reverse cycle; to have them on at nights when its cooler than during day time. Are you planning to invest on a chiller in the future?

[simplepleasures]

Thanks Emo. I thought this thread might help you. I currently run my lights from 5 in the evening to midnight and have the house a/c set at 78 deg. with the stand and canopy doors open. I am planning on investing in a chiller in the future. The pics are not the best as I just move the rock work two days befor taking them and the lights had just turned on.

[simplepleasures]

Quik update. Tank is doing ok. I have a couple new cap frags that I took pics of but there is aptasia also in the pic. For some reason my tank has become aptasia paradise.

[Nick_Kun]

very nice, your tank looks like it's low in nutrients, add more fish ;)

[simplepleasures]

Thanks. I plan on gettign rid of the anthias and chromis then adding a bunch more. I have not had good luke with the last few additions I have tried. (2 potters wrasses and african wrasse) Now I just have to catch the SOBs.

[WanaLeime]

Build you own FISH TRAP =) or borrow one.

The wrasses you mention, do you mind if I ask how they died?

beautiful tank BTW. is that the patriots game in on the FLAT SCREEN.....BAller!!!!!

[simplepleasures]

I am going to build a trap I just have not had time. One of the chromis went over the overflow so that was cool.

Yes that is the game.

All three of the wrasses died within three days of purchase. Found in the morning dead. I have a leopard wrasse already but no one was botherng each other. The tomini had the worste time with the big tang and he made it just fine. The last three wrasses bought at the same store.

I am currently fighting a blackish thick mat type of alge.I think it came from one of my rocks and is now spreding.

[joemommaca]

I think what they're talking about is your returns. If your pump goes out, the water won't care if those are RETURN pipes, it's going down them anyway. So with the returns that low in the tank, the whole tank will empty. It's best to keep returns up high so if the pump stops, you only lose water down to the lowest pipe.

[simplepleasures]

What are you talking about? I do have low returns in the tank but the are hooked up to my closed loop so if power shuts off the water stays in the tank. the returns from my sump are throught the top of the tank. I think we went over this before in my thread a couple pages back.

[simplepleasures]

Couple new pics. I tried a sheet to change the way these pics look. I have added a few new corals and was able to remove the chromis, and anthia. I have since added a velvet fairy wrasse, copper band, and a yellow chest twisti wrasse, and a blue star wrasse (still hiding from being introduced late Monday). I have also started dosing Kalk. Hopefully the kalk will help the corals.

[jrlafrance]

Great looking tank!

I would like to get a couple of things straight in my mind. Your dart external pump (which model?) is the driving force for your closed loop which has 6 outputs into our tank (4 above, 2 below)? Then I'm assuming in the back of the tank there is an overflow, that is gravity fed into your sump. What kind of pump are you using to bring the water back into your tank, and where is it introduced back into it ( I can't see where)?

Just some questions, since I've never seen a closed loop system before!

[simplepleasures]

The Closed loop is powered by a reeflo Dart. There are two outputs that go up through the overflow and all the way to the far side from the overflow and push water back to the over flow. Then there are two outputs in the bottom of the tank inside of the two rock stacks. One pushes to the front glass and one pushes back toward the over flow. Total of 4 out puts. The 2" intake for the CL is in front of the overflow and below the over flow I want to add a Oceans motion 4 way at some point.

Then there is another 2" drain in the overflow that feeds the sump. I have a rio 1700 returning through the overflow then splitting above the tank and to either side of the over flow. They are pointed to push the "clean" water towards the front glass. I want to get a little bit bigger sump return so it pushes the water further away from the overflow.

I hope this helps. There are many different ways to configure a closed loop. There are a few minor changes that I would make but all in all I am happy with my first ever closed loop tank.